Adornment seems to be a way of compensating for personal doubts about ones body  (see Temp's interesting thread on that) - perhaps, anyway. In collections of the Indus Valley relics are several necklaces of pierced stone (agates) and lines of large plain baked clay beads which may have been coloured - a model bronze dancer wore many amulets  - but no clothes - is dated circa 2500 BC. I think ferv and ID will have many more ancient examples to offer..... and not all for women, either. I suspect that male bling is edging back into fashion with diamond and gold studs for a good ol' status-flaunt.

Priscilla wrote:

Adornment seems to be a way of compensating for personal doubts about ones body  (see Temp's interesting thread on that) - perhaps, anyway. In collections of the Indus Valley relics are several necklaces of pierced stone (agates) and lines of large plain baked clay beads which may have been coloured - a model bronze dancer wore many amulets  - but no clothes - is dated circa 2500 BC. I think ferv and ID will have many more ancient examples to offer..... and not all for women, either. I suspect that male bling is edging back into fashion with diamond and gold studs for a good ol' status-flaunt.

Priscilla,

with "relics", do you mean persons burried in a grave?

But with some research I found this:
photos of Indian Valley culture relics:
goo.gl/yW8aFb
And yes the Egyptian relics seems to be clothed?
goo.gl/4ZxqxS

My reasoning was that the Harappan civilisation was not so far from the stone age, with its female naked figurines.
http://www.crystalinks.com/induscivilization.html
as the Venus from Willendorf:
goo.gl/pF3wFo
And my thinking seems to be somewhere mentioned in this book from page 172 on...
goo.gl/2d3Cn7


Kind regards, Paul.

Paul, the Harrappan civilisation was advanced with street drainage systems, trade with Gulf areas, huge granaries, main streets with artisan workshops, two storied houses, large devotional pools (water proofed) paved streets ( worn by cart wheels) and a script not decoded as yet but used on faience seals to mark their goods and pottery. The bronze dancer I mentioned is quite sophisticate in pose. The lumpy mother earth figures in clay are perhaps what caused you to think they were more primitive.  You might research further - Sir Mortimer Wheeler had a field day - or two - exposing the many layers. of Mohenjo Daro, a huge site but there at least 180 other sites. The people adorned themselves  -  several small fancy bronze eye khol sapplication ticks have been fond. Their cargo boats were large and at least one substanial sea dock has been found. The quay at Mohenjo Daro serving the Indus traffic is now far from the river which has changed course. I could go on but you get my drift.

Priscilla wrote:

Adornment seems to be a way of compensating for personal doubts about ones body  (see Temp's interesting thread on that) - perhaps, anyway. In collections of the Indus Valley relics are several necklaces of pierced stone (agates) and lines of large plain baked clay beads which may have been coloured - a model bronze dancer wore many amulets  - but no clothes - is dated circa 2500 BC. I think ferv and ID will have many more ancient examples to offer..... and not all for women, either. I suspect that male bling is edging back into fashion with diamond and gold studs for a good ol' status-flaunt.

I'm not sure about 'doubts about our body' but it seems evident that, as soon as our funny old species (and closely related ones), acquired consciousness of our body, and the technology needed, we started to try to change it. We decorated it with the ornaments you mentioned but also painted it, tattooed it and scarred it. We shaved it or elaborated the hair growth, cut or cultivated nails, pierced bits of it and even found ways of changing the shape of bone - elongated skulls have been particularly popular. Temp's body image thread, and perhaps this might have been more appropriate there but it seems to me that these threads overlap, is another aspects of this and the choice of desirable body shape had been as varied as any other in this context from those obese palaeolithic and neolithic 'godesses' to that wonderful little skinny Indus Valley dancer (great bling there) to the Greek ideal of the sculpted physique of a kouros.

And not just our bodies: as soon as we developed consciousness we began finding ways to alter that as well so is this discontent - or aspiration - with what evolution has given us a defining characteristic of hominids? I don't know of any evidence of bodily transformation in the apes but I might be wrong. Several species of animals are partial to a belly full of fermented fruit though

Here's that wee dancer, isn't she a wonderful, feisty little madam?

ferval wrote:

I'm not sure about 'doubts about our body' but it seems evident that, as soon as our funny old species (and closely related ones), acquired consciousness of our body, and the technology needed, we started to try to change it. We decorated it with the ornaments you mentioned but also painted it, tattooed it and scarred it. We shaved it or elaborated the hair growth, cut or cultivated nails, pierced bits of it and even found ways of changing the shape of bone - elongated skulls have been particularly popular. Temp's body image thread, and perhaps this might have been more appropriate there but it seems to me that these threads overlap, is another aspects of this and the choice of desirable body shape had been as varied as any other in this context from those obese palaeolithic and neolithic 'godesses' to that wonderful little skinny Indus Valley dancer (great bling there) to the Greek ideal of the sculpted physique of a kouros.

And not just our bodies: as soon as we developed consciousness we began finding ways to alter that as well so is this discontent - or aspiration - with what evolution has given us a defining characteristic of hominids? I don't know of any evidence of bodily transformation in the apes but I might be wrong. Several species of animals are partial to a belly full of fermented fruit though

Here's that wee dancer, isn't she a wonderful, feisty little madam?

May I transfer the above to the Plato, Augustine and Sticking To Your Diet thread, ferval?

She's great! And doesn't she look modern? She has that defiance and confidence that comes from the joyful mastery of one's body - in her case from her dance discipline. She's clearly got the ballet bug!

Of course, as I said it would probably sit more comfortably there there, so I have copied it over.

Priscilla wrote:

Paul, the Harrappan civilisation was advanced with street drainage systems, trade with Gulf areas, huge granaries, main streets with artisan workshops, two storied houses, large devotional pools (water proofed) paved streets ( worn by cart wheels) and a script not decoded as yet but used on faience seals to mark their goods and pottery. The bronze dancer I mentioned is quite sophisticate in pose. The lumpy mother earth figures in clay are perhaps what caused you to think they were more primitive.  You might research further - Sir Mortimer Wheeler had a field day - or two - exposing the many layers. of Mohenjo Daro, a huge site but there at least 180 other sites. The people adorned themselves  -  several small fancy bronze eye khol sapplication ticks have been fond. Their cargo boats were large and at least one substanial sea dock has been found. The quay at Mohenjo Daro serving the Indus traffic is now far from the river which has changed course. I could go on but you get my drift.

Priscilla,

"My reasoning was that the Harappan civilisation was not so far from the stone age, with its female naked figurines"
I agree my sentence is a bit misplaced and ambiguous. And I certainly don't want to offend you about the Indian Culture. I saw several documentaries about Harappa and Mohenjo Daro.

But what I wanted to say was the link, although one cannot compare the Stone age with the sophisticated Indus Valley civilisations, between a kind of religion? custom? of representing people as naked.
For instance the Egyptian religion as I described it in the thread: Kings and Gods...The worshipping of the Pharao is also not appeared out of the blue...it had its roots in predynastic cultures...
BTW Priscilla in my thread about Kings and Gods I tried to compare the Sumerian culture, the Egyptian one and the Chinese one...but nothing about Hinduism...my mind boggles when I read it all...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
If you could enlighten us on a comprehensive manner Priscilla.
Of course the naked godesses have nothing to do with your naked figurine of a dancer, I guess...
After all Hinduism started much more later than the Indian Valley culture?
I try to see a continious line in all it, but I guess that I am wrong.
From the book that I mentioned:
goo.gl/2d3Cn7
Costumes and Ornaments as Depicted in the Sculptures of Gwalior Museum Author: Sulochana Ayyar.
Sadly the page before 172 is not available, but page 172 start with:
The beauty of the whole can only be displayed in the unclothed form. In India it is believed that the magical efficacy of the divine body was felt to act more freely on nude figures and the clothing itself might have been thought to conserve it.
Then follows a whole article about ornaments.

Kind regards, Paul.