Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 08 Jun 2015, 17:43
MM wrote:
the earth is home to some 30 million different species of beetle.
Or maybe not -
In the 1980s, there were just two methods of estimating species. In the case of beetles, these gave a mean of 17.5 million species and a range of 4.9-40.7 million. For all terrestrial arthropods, the mean was 36.8 million and a range of 7-80 million.
However, the new research shows that four current methods of estimation -- dating from 2001 onwards -- suggest much lower figures, namely a mean of 1.5 million for beetles (range 0.9-2.1 million) and 6.8 million for terrestrial arthropods (range 5.9-7.8 million).
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 08 Jun 2015, 23:06
Still need Adam to talk at Patrick Moore speed to get through them all in a day, though.
ferval Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Fri 12 Jun 2015, 16:42
Now they are making excuses for the naked dinos in the latest movie.
Dr Jack Horner from Montana State University consulted on Jurassic World. He told Newsbeat that the reason they couldn't update the look of the dinosaurs was for continuity purposes and said they couldn't add feathers to a dinosaur which originally didn't have any in the first three Jurassic Park films. "We made the best dinosaurs we could at that time," he explains. "We can't say that we're going to have feathered dinosaurs brought back now. We need to keep the consistency. "Jurassic Park one, two, three and four are all pieces of one story. And so, unfortunately we can't change the way the dinosaurs look."
What a bad boy is he.
Meles meles Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 15:45
Seems like Jack Horner has sold out to BigEntertainment - much like his character (Dr Alan Grant) did in the films.
But they could explain it all away, if they so wanted, by referenece to Hox genes. In JP1 it was explained that they'd had to fill in missing genetic code using amphibian DNA. So if they wanted to keep scaly dinos they just say that they are still missing the hox genes (or rather the means to control them) that cause the expression of feathers. Or alternatively if they wanted a plausible explanation for why their dinos had been up-dated to be feathered, then bingo, they've now managed to extract intact dino hox genes and so can cause the latest generation of their dinos to be feathered.
And feathered 10 tonne "chickens from hell" would surely, with the right plot writers, have given a new angle, without having to indulge in all the genetically-modified super-dino rubbish that the latest film revolves around. But hey, it's only fiction.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 16:03
I guess in the days when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's "The Lost World" was being dramatised (the earliest attempts at dramatisation of said work anyway) they didn't have to worry as much about how realistic the dinosaurs looked. Meles bis I think you need to approach the latest Jurassic world film the way I used to approach "Dynasty". I looked at it as a comedy rather than a drama to be taken seriously. I've always thought it would be rather fun if against the odds Nessie turned out to be real (silly I know, but permit me a little flight of fancy) - though I would probably think differently if Nessie started marauding the surrounding countryside.
Perhaps Jack Horner needs the money (from BigEntertainment), MM.
Meles meles Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 16:22
Well quite ... it is as you say just entertainment and I have very little problem with that. I might even watch the latest Jurassic Park offering at sometime, for entertainment.
There was recently (in 2007 wikipedia informs me) a 'childrens' film, "The Water Horse" about a boy who discovers an egg of the Loch Ness monster. Now I don't for one instance think there really is a monster or prehistoric creature in the loch, but I can still enjoy the idea of one, in much the same way as one can enjoy books about Narnia, The Borrowers, The Weirdstone of Brisingaman etc. That film I found absolutely charming.
ferval Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 16:49
And feathered 10 tonne "chickens from hell" would surely, with the right plot writers, have given a new angle, without having to indulge in all the genetically-modified super-dino rubbish that the latest film revolves around.
Even better would have been 10 tonne corvids from hell, all that intelligence and cold eyed viciousness allied to monstrous size. I can visualise the heart-rendering scene where they maraud the nest of cutesy little newly hatched triceratops (sorry Trike) and tear their poor wee bodies apart. Just like the magpies did to the baby blackbirds in my garden.
Meles meles Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 17:11
Funny you should mention magpies, but with their long stiff tails, intelligence, goup/gang mentality, and utter ruthlessness in pursuit of a meal, I always see them as small velociraptors ... and I fail to see how anyone cannot understand their relationship with velociraptid dinosaurs. Even to their forward slashing/kicking feet, and their balancing-pole tails: stiff, straight, feathers in magpies; and stiff, straight, tendon-buttressed bony tails in 'raptors (and related therapods). Anyone that says that they can't imagine how birds could be the descendants of dinosaurs just needs to watch a group of magpies or crows .... or a single cassowary ... or an ostrich ... or a harrier .... or a bustard ... or a hornbill.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 22:46
Without making a conscious effort, I realise that I became quite an expert on lizards. Having a gekko live behind each picture on every wall in every room of a large house their stalking, territorial fights, angry stances, mating habits were daily fare and nightly too when they chukked loudly at each other. Eggs turned up in vases and small pink newies often appeared on the floor. On garden walls far bigger jobs with crests and spines stalked birds and each other - I once saw one stamp feet and do its head nod challenge at the sky whilst changing from green to bright red in anger when a sudden monsoon shower struck. Bigger desert ones like small dragons usually stood still in car headlights as they sauntered about unlit roads. Many birds have eyes that are similar to my lot of lizards. The link between dinosaurs and birds is not hard to imagine.
ferval Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Sat 13 Jun 2015, 23:30
Watched this on TV tonight, most apposite to this thread.
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 15 Jun 2015, 13:19
I watched that one as well, Ferval. Sufficient detail of Sinosauropteryx remains that it is possible to work out the colouring;
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 15 Jun 2015, 13:23
Episode 1, about the Burgess Shale fossils is on youtube;
ferval Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 15 Jun 2015, 16:50
I watched the series first time round but felt obliged to rewatch because of theis thread.
Anyone that says that they can't imagine how birds could be the descendants of dinosaurs just needs to watch a group of magpies or crows .... or a single cassowary ... or an ostrich ... or a harrier .... or a bustard ... or a hornbill.
Or maybe a baby blue heron?
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 15 Jun 2015, 18:01
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 25 Jun 2015, 11:12
Hallucigenia: not just upside-down but back-to-front.
What has it got to be smiling about?
Meles meles Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 25 Jun 2015, 19:33
ferval wrote:
What has it got to be smiling about?
Well given that the history of reconstructions for Hallucigenia have been upside down, back to front, and literally arse about face, I guess those wee beasties might well be chuckling away in their own special, secret Laughin' Place, aka the Burgess Shale.
So how about we all sing along with Uncle Rhemus and Brer Rabbit (if "Song of the South" isn't deemed too non-PC these days):
Everyone's got a laughin' face, A happy face to say trah lah. Take that frown, Turn it upside down, And you'll find your own laughin' face!
Perhaps one needs to watch this after a few beers, a glass of Chateauneuf-du-Pape, a G and T, or whatever it is that serves as one's recreational drug of preference ..... but remember the beast in question wasn't called Hallucigenia for nothing!
And so turn that frown, turn it upside down ... just like Hallucigenia
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Fri 17 Jul 2015, 08:51
Ancestor of Velociraptor was a "feathered dragon";
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 28 Jun 2016, 20:46
That same Burmese amber source (which I believe has only recently started to be studied) has produced some other good stuff. I think the same researchers recently found an amber lump containing an entire lizard, complete with skin, scales, and soft organs ... all perfectly preserved.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 28 Jul 2016, 15:26
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 28 Jul 2016, 21:20
Meles meles wrote:
There are far more species of beetle than there are species of snake.
Darwin is supposed to have remarked that "the Creator must be inordinately fond of beetles because he made so many of them". The story may be apocryphal or might be more readily attributable to the biologist JBS Haldane but either way it's quite true - the earth is home to some 30 million different species of beetle.
This is perhaps the origin of the beetle obsession of the god of Evolution described by the late Terry Pratchett in http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/The_Last_Continent - I'm sure I've seen it referred to in Brewer, of which TP was a great advocate.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Fri 17 Feb 2017, 12:51
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 27 Mar 2017, 19:41
Just when you think you've got something sorted, they start mucking about with it! Dinosaurs were remarkable creatures, but they can also be extremely irritating...
I remain unconvinced of the need to produce this pseudo-mammoth. You wouldn't be saving the Asian elephant, surely you'd be creating a new breed of elephant. Whether it would really save the tundra I'm not remotely qualified to comment on. At the heart of projects like these, I can never shake off a sneaking suspicion that the real reason for doing it is "because we can".
In the meantime I shall grumpily go and watch Doctor Who: Earthshock again, which tells me (truthfully, I'm convinced) that the dinosaurs went extinct after a space freighter was accidentally sent back in time by the Cybermen and crashed into the Earth (coincidentally killing the Doctor's companion Adric - the obnoxious little tit!).
Islanddawn Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 28 Mar 2017, 16:11
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 28 Mar 2017, 16:32
The chap in the photo had a narrow escape, by the looks of it...
So, who wins? The dinosaur prints or the gas plant?
Islanddawn Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 28 Mar 2017, 17:56
Ah that'll depend on a lot of things AN. Where the prospective gas plants will be in relation to the prints and other tribal sacred sites, which law has supremacy in the area, tribal or Government, what governmet is in office (conservative at the moment which doesn't look good), how desperate the gov is for revenue, which company is doing the developing and how much the backhanders are....sorry lobbyists push and on it goes.
But judging from the past examples the Indigenous people of the region will get a raw deal, which is why they've began by calling in the scientists to help fight their corner. If they can garner enough support and have their area protected then they may have a chance. Fingers crossed that they do.
Islanddawn Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 28 Mar 2017, 19:57
Ok, more information here than in the Guardian report and good news. The Goolarabooloo won and the site is now granted Natural Heritage Status, sometimes the underdog do win.
In 2008, the Goolarabooloo worried that Walmadany was at risk, after Western Australia’s government tapped the site to host a $40-billion liquid natural gas processing plant. In short order, the Goolarabooloo contacted Sailsbury and his colleagues, who then spent more than 400 hours along the coastline cataloging 150 different prints.
The work wasn’t easy. Sailsbury and his colleagues had to navigate the coast’s notoriously intense tides, which can rise and fall more than 30 feet, as well as deal with the occasional shark and crocodile. But to protect a site of such cultural and scientific significance, the challenges were worth it.
"We needed the world to see what was at stake," said Roe.
After years of paleontological work—and protests—Walmadany was granted Natural Heritage status in 2011, protecting the tracks from harm. Two years later, the natural-gas project folded.
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Wed 29 Mar 2017, 09:56
It's impossible these days to announce any research findings without "sexing it up" first, but this is about as blatant as it gets.
Mind you, I'd bet Triceratops (the animal, not our fellow member) never tried it!
Islanddawn Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 30 Mar 2017, 17:48
Mmm, and a shark also has a sensitive snout. One good whack on a shark's honker and it'll let go pretty bloody quick so they must be a bit touchy feely too.......
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Fri 31 Mar 2017, 09:17
There's only one way to deal with a T.Rex:
nordmann Nobiles Barbariæ
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Mon 03 Apr 2017, 07:47
Poor bastard was probably just trying to be friendly!
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Thu 13 Apr 2017, 11:12
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 16 May 2017, 18:25
Yes, I watched that, you might think I would know better by now. Alice Roberts in her strappy t-shirt is never a good sign. Just how many CGI recreations of a big rock hurtling through space and an almighty bang can be fitted into one hour of television? I can't say, I gave up counting. Another case of 10 minutes of content eeked out to 60 minutes with shots of drills going round (which didn't get as deep as they had hoped), people gazing at cores, Alice riding across the wilds of Patagonia, CGI dino herds, sunset over the sea and that flaming whoosh - bang over and over again. The New Jersey fossil bed was interesting though, I didn't know about that.
All this for the revelatory conclusion that the extreme climate change following the impact was made significantly worse by the amount of sulphides propelled into the atmosphere, they kept blethering on about gypsum in the Yucatan as if that was a dazzling new discovery (it's a major export, for heaven's sake) and - wait for it, wait for it - if the impact had occurred somewhere else, or at a slightly different time, (or not at all, presumably) it might all have been different and the big boys might still be around.
Anglo-Norman Consulatus
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 16 May 2017, 19:40
IMO Alice Roberts in a strappy top is always a good sign. Just not necessarily of a good programme. (Sorry, lowering the tone! Where's Raquel Welch being menaced by a plasticine allosaurus in a fur bikini when you need her? And why is the dinosaur wearing a fur bikini, anyway?)
I did notice the dreadful CGI, and for quite large chunks I was wondering what was knew. Yes, they came up with more details on the how, but the basic premise that Earth was hit my an asteroid with threw up an enormous cloud of debris, disastrously changing the environment, was something every child knew! Or maybe they just used to.
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Wed 17 May 2017, 10:57
And no mention of any other possible causes for the K-T Extinction, such as the vulcanism which formed the Deccan Traps:
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Wed 17 May 2017, 11:21
Anglo-Norman wrote:
Yes, they came up with more details on the how, but the basic premise that Earth was hit my an asteroid with threw up an enormous cloud of debris, disastrously changing the environment, was something every child knew! Or maybe they just used to.
Mind you it has also long been suggested that the Chicxulub asteroid impact may have only been the coup de grace. There is evidence that, worldwide, the number of animal species and genera (though of course not the total number of animals themselves) had been declining for some time prior to the KT boundary event. Also the massive volcanism represented by the enormous basalt deposits of the Deccan Traps in India which lasted for about two million years and would alone have caused global climate change ... and the latest dating is that these eruptions started about a million years before the end of the Cretaceous.
There is also clear evidence that sea levels fell (or actually it was more probably widespread regression with build up of sediments) in the final stage of the Cretaceous more than at any other time throughout the Mesozoic. The effect of a severe regression is to greatly reduce the continental shelf area, which is the most species-rich part of the sea, and therefore could have been enough to cause a marine mass extinction. A marine regression would also result in reduced epeiric or inland seas (these are ones like the current Mediterranean, Baltic and Caspian seas, but also like those that at the present separate the UK from Eurasia, Siberia from Alaska and Australia from Indonesia) and hence the opening of land bridges, or at least the appearence of more convenient bits of land to enable species to 'island-hop' between landmasses. This can be good for some opportunistic species but can nevertheless wreak havoc on previously stable ecologies (such as happened in the Tertiary when North America, moving Southwards, became joined to South America, which enabled placental mammals to troop across the new land bridge and largely replace all the diverse types of South American marsupials, primative types of placentals, and giant ground birds).
So although the Chicxulub crater does provide a convenient 'smoking gun' to account for the Cretaceous/Paleogene extinction event, the global ecology might well have already been under considerable stress and was just tipped over the edge by the asteroid impact.
Crossed posts with Trike.
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 18 Jul 2017, 13:09
T.Rex could only jog along at around 12mph, according to latest research:
"T. rex is everyone's favourite dinosaur, and palaeontologists have been arguing for years about how fast it could run because this would tell us something about its hunting style and the way it caught its prey,'' said Prof William Sellers.
"Everyone's favourite dinosaur". Have you ever heard such diabolical blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ferval Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 18 Jul 2017, 13:55
Appalling Trike, complain to somebody.
i understood that it was now quite widely considered that T Rex was largely a scavenger and so wouldn't need to run very quickly. Or at all. Anyway, how fast could its prey animals run? Like the old saw about escaping a bear - you only need to run faster than your companion - a predator only needs to run as fast as its prey.
Triceratops Censura
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 18 Jul 2017, 14:16
Still very much conjecture, Ferval. The large olfactory senses of T.Rex could indicate scavenging behaviour or active hunting in low light. My own guess would be a combination of both predation and scavenging.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals Tue 18 Jul 2017, 17:39
It has also been suggested - originally many years ago - that T rex and other large theropods were principally ambush hunters, for which a good sense of smell and/or night vision would certainly not be disadvantageous. So like modern leopards or komodo dragons, they just found a bit of cover next to a well-used trail, hid, and waited ... and then when some suitable prey passed, all that was needed was a short burst of speed and a quick killing bite, or even just a disabling bite. No great stamina for the chase, nor speedy ability to outrun the prey, was ever needed as it all depended on the sudden lunge and devastating bite. And you cannot deny that T rex was apparently capable of a quick, very powerful bite. Modern komodo dragons are easily outrun by adult humans if pitted in a straight race, yet komodo dragons regularly catch and kill flighty animals like wild deer, goats, pigs and wild fowl ... and indeed sometimes even humans.
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Subject: Re: Dinosaurs and other Prehistoric Animals