As Priscilla I want to discuss novels, not only "great literature", all kind of novels but because we are a historyboard perhaps especially the historical ones.
I started in fact already on the "great literature benefit" thread...
See you perhaps tomorow in this thread...

Kind regards, Paul.

Paul, I do so admire your spunk in keeping yourself so busy despite all the probs you are facing. I further applaud you for starting this thread as a clarification of what perhaps we would rather write about than the high-minded sounding one I attempted that prompted a high-minded dissertation. Here  perhaps we can trade nice ideas about nice books....... though I wouldn't be surprised if a salacious (illustrated) entry or two made a showing - the sort fit only for Aristotle's sideboard beside the vials..... I an uncertain if this Ari is the one who had a big boat and a former President's widow for wife or the one who  tried to educate Alexander of Macedonia. Anyway, there's sharing and sharing............

I am rather cagey about lending  books because they might also say something about me. However, I have no fears with Kai Lung. Starting with his Kai Lung's Happy Hours.' I first read of his exploits when i was 15, delighted in them then and still do. Not easy to find....... they are by Ernest Bramah.

P wrote:

I further applaud you for starting this thread as a clarification of what perhaps we would rather write about than the high-minded sounding one I attempted that prompted a high-minded dissertation.

I can do no right apparently. Even answering questions as best I can draws smart-arse put-downs about "dissertations" and derisory comments in the bar. I give up ...

Paul, at this stage I have quite a list of historical novels that I definitely would have recommended immediately after reading them, but which now I wouldn't be so sure about at all, normally after having read a smidgin further on the topic, enough to realise that the fantastic historical plot device which had just wowed me could only actually have occurred in a parallel universe.

I content myself with Marcus Didius Falco these days ... a sort of Jim Garner of the late republic whose exploits fit in with standard historical events of the period in as much as the latter sometimes get a mention - but all further reference to history is purely coincidental, accidental and often just mental. But that suits me - less to find fault with, I suppose, and I admire his "f**k the begrudgers" attitude (an essential attribute in certain quarters).

Now I'll shut up before I draw even more bile from your wan.

of course you can do no right, nordmann. And of course you don't give up, either. It's just that sometimes the bar is raised so high by you that lesser minds ought make a lower hurdle to try to jump. Lighten up. I mean you no harm, disrespect or a victim of bile -  but yes, I suppose my brand of humour does seem somewhat derisory. Humour often is. But the nice kind is somewhat cloying. is that what you want? I have lived and worked alongside missionaries but never adopted the style...... and they seemed to enjoy the risky business of being close to me the she-devil. but they were pretty tough cookies, actually.

And for clarification re my post above, Kai Lung had Golden Hours, not Happy hours....... well, perhaps he did - and that was got him into all manner of problems.

P wrote:

but yes, I suppose my brand of humour does seem somewhat derisory.

Not sure about that, but your brand of derision does certainly seem less than humorous. As well as aimed always in one direction. I'm absolutely fed up with it to be honest.

Paul, it may sound like an obvious one but Remarque's "All Quiet On The Western Front" was one I got round to all too late in life, having presumably assumed I'd already known the content for no good reason that I can now imagine (one of those books one assumes one has read just because the name is familiar and one has seen a few clips from a film version throughout one's life, I suppose). But definitely a story that can be appreciated on surprisingly many levels, has a relevance that will never diminish. Well worth recommending.

I never liked One Direction much either, the grandsons did - tho I gather that other women(mostly blond) did.

I cringed today on reading that the Beeb is putting on a Les Miserables and that viewers may be disappointed in that there will be no singing. But, it was disclosed there several bits of the book missed out in the staged versions. Only several? I re read it  recently in French again, also. Still good stuff.

Priscilla wrote:

Paul, I do so admire your spunk in keeping yourself so busy despite all the probs you are facing.

Yes, I agree, and - going off topic here, sorry - that's why I hope we can keep Res His going. It's been a lifeline for me at times, and I think for one or two others as well. Researching stuff and friendly arguing keeps the bogies at bay. All this squabbling is very silly when we are fortunate to have a such a great site with so many interesting and intelligent (if occasionally annoying) people posting. And annoying as we all are at times, we do all keep coming back. I am not being a cheesemaker, just saying.

I want to be buried (not for a while yet, I hope) with my complete set of Jane Austen novels and her letters. Not a particularly original choice perhaps, but we were asked for the novels that are  "dear" to us. Just the books, no DVD's, not even the Andrew Davies adaptations.

I should also like to mention the historical novels of Margaret Irwin - especially her Elizabeth Tudor trilogy and her novel about Bothwell, the third husband of Mary Stuart. Hilary Mantel owes a lot to Irwin's style, I think, although no one else has ever picked up on that. Mantel noted - and emulated - Irwin's determination to research like a historian, but write like a connoisseur of character.

Nordmann,

yes Erich Maria Remarque, born Erich Paul Remark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Maria_Remarque
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front

I read recently a novel from a French author born in the 19th century and died in the last half of the 20th century. I did research on the internet about him to know his whereabouts and so I saw that the work was certainly autobiographic.
And that is my point, the best works in my opinion part from a real life experience. And so it was in its description of WWI at the Western front as an officer, who had seen already real combat experience during his stationing in the Maghreb, Maroc, accompagned by his wife.
It remembered me of the book of Remarque that I read in original German issue.
But the French book, as perhaps because the two lifes of the authors were different, was not that deprimating as the German one. It pointed also, as perhaps in the real life of the author, to the lurring into heroic patriotism, by which a lot of young people were easely influenced. As the main figurehead of the novel was living in the Alsace. "Le retour de l'Alsace" after the capture by the Germans in 1870.

But yes it is perhaps possible to write a good novel about a historic time, which is not part of your life experience, but I think it is very difficult, even with the best historical research?
I started some years ago to write a novel starting some years before WWII playing in my region and although I am so embedded in that period by all the narrative of my family and inner circle, I stumbled on the difficulty to reproduce the real background. But perhaps the big motivations of life and the essence of human relationships are of all times and are more important in a novel than all the rest. Perhaps I will restart one day ...

Kind regards, Paul.

nordmann wrote:

P wrote:

but yes, I suppose my brand of humour does seem somewhat derisory.

Not sure about that, but your brand of derision does certainly seem less than humorous. As well as aimed always in one direction. I'm absolutely fed up with it to be honest.

Paul, it may sound like an obvious one but Remarque's "All Quiet On The Western Front" was one I got round to all too late in life, having presumably assumed I'd already known the content for no good reason that I can now imagine (one of those books one assumes one has read just because the name is familiar and one has seen a few clips from a film version throughout one's life, I suppose). But definitely a story that can be appreciated on surprisingly many levels, has a relevance that will never diminish. Well worth recommending.

I rate Dalton Trumbo's "Johnny got his gun" pretty much on a level  with "All Quiet". Of the humorous (or described as such) war books, the semi-autobiographical "Slaughterhouse 5" stands alone in my view.
Edit - had missed this one : Jaroslav Hašek's The Good Soldier Švejk. Inexcusable omission.

There is a plethora of novels to choose from which used WWI as their theme and which were ultimately pacifist in tone. Many more than emanated from WWII or later wars, though I agree that "Slaughterhouse 5" stands out for its humour - and its anti-war undertone, much more effective than Catch 22 or MASH, though they rate highly in these regards too.

Another very good one (anti-war, not humorous) - which questioned just about every assumed "noble" aspect to warfare - was "A Soldier of the Great War" by Mark Helprin. I don't like Helprin much - he's a darling of the American far right and has views regarding religion, state control and ethics which are frankly obnoxious. However these may actually have helped him when constructing the character of Alessandro Giuliani (yes, I know), the old veteran who recounts his life to the young man he befriends when both are thrown off the bus and are obliged to walk a long distance together to the next village. Helprin ended up not only with a very good story, but also with a character who's deconstruction one can follow through his entire life until as an old man he finally has realised some essential truths about life, beauty, and the point of existence.

One doesn't have to agree with either Alessandro or his creator, but the story is just so brilliantly told that this is of secondary consideration anyway. And one learns a lot about that all too forgotten front of WWI in the Southern Alps.

Gil,

"Edit - had missed this one : Jaroslav Hašek's The Good Soldier Švejk. Inexcusable omission."

I read it, borrowed from the local library, in Dutch translation...
If I am honest, I was a little bit disappointed. I read it after having seen some episodes, I didn't remember if it was in English or in German of a TV series about the hero of Hasek...I see now that it was in German...:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0328731/

That series was well brought and most important very logic in plot...
In the Czech book as I many times have with East European books it are like pieces of art, the thread of thoughts is let to the reader to interpret, what the author wants to explain...even their films are of the same vein...I have the impression ...
And so to be quite honest I have cross read after some 50 pages to reach as quickly as possible the end   and that on such a master piece ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Soldier_%C5%A0vejk
https://www.amazon.com/Good-Soldier-Svejk-Fortunes-Classics/dp/0140449914


Kind regards from Paul.

There is a programme on BBC Radio 4 called "A Good Read" - the presenter and two guests each select a book - must be a paperback (to make it affordable) and must be in print (to make it available). Often get some really interesting books, and stimulating exchanges on them. Useful at least as much as a dire warning as an encouragement to read the chosen books. Many bring to mind the review by Sid Ziff “It is not a book to be lightly thrown aside. It should be thrown with great force.”

Actually, I think the two I have read or re-read recently that I would suggest are worth a read were Troubles by J.G.. Farrell (the so-called "lost Booker") and Ginger, you're Barmy by David Lodge.

The mention of David Lodge reminds me of Deaf Sentence, which I still think of several years after I first read it. There is especially a paragraph about dying that I found mirrored my thoughts exactly.  He talks of not wanting to die without warning, and then not wanting to go through a lingering painful death, and finally coming up with the sentence that he didn't want to die at all.  I have read other David Lodge books and they haven't impacted me so much, one, Think, I didn't even finish.

Bit like Rincewind's badge for the "Stop Cohen" mission - "Morituri nolumus mori".

Today is the anniversary of the death of my favourite author - Arnold Bennett, he died at his home in Chilton Court, Baker St, London on 27 March 1931 aged 63.
Born in The Potteries in 1867 much of his earlier writing is set in north Staffordshire, even though he moved to London in his early 20s and only returned on family visits thereafter.
His most famous novels are The Old Wives' Tale and Clayhanger, but for anyone wishing to read Bennett for the first time I'd recommend Anna of the Five Towns or Helen With the High Hand. 
To be honest some of his novels aren't very good, he made money out of "sensation" novels which, in my opinion, aren't his best. His reputation fell a little around the First World War, but revived in the 20s with some excellent works.

I'd start with "The Card" myself. He couldn't count, of course, there a 6 towns, not 5.

His answer to that was that Five Towns sounds better then Six Towns. He left out Fenton, which was/is the smallest of the six and, to be brutal, still quite a dump. 
If you want to try some of his lesser known works I'd go for Sacred and Profane Love or my favourite Whom God Hath Joined. 

Still causes problems. People look for the City Hall in Stoke, where it isn't.

I don't think I have read any Arnold Bennett, though of course his name is familiar to me. This thread got a bit too esoteric for me (as well as a bit bitter), which is perhaps why I didn't mention my favourite (by a long stretch) favourite historical writer, Georgette Heyer, who wrote romances set in the Regency period. I have been thinking of what I would want to read if I knew I was dying and it would be her (and maybe some of my childhood favourites like Anne of the Island by LM Montgomery. Or the Sue Barton books). Or an Alexander McCall Smith, a new series of whom I have started just now. But I might prefer his Corduroy Mansions books or the ones set if Africa. I don't think I would pick a serious book that I hadn't already read. Maybe The Pickwick Papers.

I go to Hay-on-Wye every October to worship at the Holy City of Books. If you can recommend a good Georgette Heyer (nothing too slushy) I'll buy it and read it. In return I'll recommend a number of Arnold Bennett's any one of which will be good. The Card and Anna of the Five Towns should be easy to find, my favourites of his lesser known works I've already mentioned - Whom God Hath Joined, Sacred and Profane Love and Helen With the High Hand may be harder to come by.
If you want to go in at the deep end try Clayhanger, The Old Wives' Tale, Riceyman Steps, Mr Prohack. 

My favourite author Arnold Bennet was born in Hanley, north Staffordshire this day 1867. 

Mark, some years ago at the Stafford U3A monthly meeting somebody gave a talk on Arnold Bennett.  Apparently he spent a considerable amount of time in France which I hadn't realised.  Mark, have you any idea why Newcastle-under-Lyme isn't one of the six towns (though that would make it seven towns) as it's right next to them.

Arnold Bennett was very much a Francophile, he lived there from 1903 to 1912 and made many visits thereafter right up to his death in 1931. In fact his death from typhoid has been put down to drinking infected water in Paris shortly before he returned to England. He died at his London home. 

Newcastle-under-Lyme is older than any of the six towns of The Potteries, it is a Borough in its own right having been granted a Royal Charter in the 1170s and has always been considered as separate from its near neighbours.

As the University town, in my youth Newcastle-under-Lyme always looked down on the Potteries, where the employment choice was pretty much "3 Ps" - Pits, Pots, or PMT.

For those of you unfamiliar with North Staffordshire I should point out that PMT in this instance is not a ladies complaint but the local bus company - Potteries Motor Traction, taken over by First Bus years ago.

yes, Mark. Better known as "Potteries Muck Trucks" from the state of their vehicles in my days at school just over the border in Salop (but with an intermittent PMT bus service).

PMT used to run to Market Drayton back then and even as far north as Sheffield. Now First Potteries' buses only venture as far as Crewe.