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 Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?

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Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?
Yes, and we'll let the eejit do it
75%
 75% [ 6 ]
Yes, but we'll see if we can hire in a kid to do it for us
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
No, and we'll take our chances that we all die before the site does
25%
 25% [ 2 ]
No, and we'll even unplug the life support to help it out of its misery
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 8
 

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nordmann
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PostSubject: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 13:14

Ok - I've locked the other poll which finished 10 to 1 (me being the only suicidal vote, which is somehow encouraging and disconcerting at the same time).

Which leaves us with the following dilemma now to be decided by plebiscite.

Fact:

Res Historica is built using programs and protocols that have already, due to their age, begun to cause problems with access due to increased security precautions incorporated as standard in modern web browsers and, probably even worse, incompatibility with an ever increasing array of browsers, websites, devices and other ways people can find and access us (let alone actually use the site).


Proposed solutions:

  • We abandon the site altogether and all meet up somewhere else (losing everything posted here over the last five or so years).

  • We upgrade the site's programming language, design, integration potential and anything else holding us back, thereby holding on to our posts (though most likely with a lot of dead images etc), and hopefully ending up with something that newcomers can actually find and use without being scared off by false security warnings, broken links, slow uploads etc (though we still retain the right to scare them off with our occasional public blood feuds etc).



The risk:

  • Abandoning the site carries no great risk other than that we all subsequently fail to find a new place to meet up.

  • Upgrading the site "in situ", one which is 100% dependent on programmatic designs and workarounds absolutely all of which must be changed out, risks breaking it in a manner for which there is no way back.



Your mission Jim should you choose to accept it:

Is basically to decide if the risk is worth taking or not. Bear in mind I am an incompetent luddite who can't even change a lightbulb without bending the ballcock irreparably. On the other hand the site has managed to function, bent ballcocks and all, for half a decade based on the same "expertise".

Good luck with your choice.
(Furtively checks behind him for an exit while steadily creeping backwards towards it ....)
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 13:36

Not that it actually has much bearing on my personal decision, and while I realise it's like asking how long is a piece of string, not to mention a (long) felt want, and also not wanting to pressure anyone, not even the eejit kid, .... but how long might this heart surgery take?
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 13:43

Lightbulb changing for me varies between 5 minutes and three years, depending on the make of ballcock in the loo. I'm afraid I can't really put a time on it if I do it alone. The plan would be to have a site back as soon as possible, even if it's a mess and needs fixing on the fly while it's in use (a bit like how this one was made, if you recall).

Actually come to think of it, that's not really a plan. Call it a "hope".

Actually come to think of it, that's not really a hope. Call it "the delusional gibberish of an old eejit".
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 13:52

Oh b*gger it, let's go for it. While we are bereft of this place I will use one of these to keep my typing fingers busy.


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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 14:08

Seriously though if we do nothing I fear the site will just die anyway ... either because (a) it increasingly breaks down being unable to keep up with more modern software, (b) increasing tech problems mean less and less people can get to access it, even if they know it's there, (c) the membership dwindles away and isn't replaced - and I don't mean to suggest that any of us are about to pass on to the great message board in the sky but people do have other things happening in their lives and might well drop out for a bit ... and not find their way back, (d) errr I did have a fouth point but I've forgotten it ...

And if everything does collapse and is lost forever then we can still regroup somewhere else and take it from there ... we were as a group in that position before when the beeb site closed.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 14:16

OK let's do it.

If it all goes apeshit:
http://historum.com/groups/exbeeb.html
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 14:43

Thanks Trike, that might be very useful for keeping us up to date with the state of the patient during surgery and post-operative care.

And for sending



and

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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 20:09

@nordmann wrote:
Ok - I've locked the other poll which finished 10 to 1 (me being the only suicidal vote, which is somehow encouraging and disconcerting at the same time).

Which leaves us with the following dilemma now to be decided by plebiscite.

Fact:

Res Historica is built using programs and protocols that have already, due to their age, begun to cause problems with access due to increased security precautions incorporated as standard in modern web browsers and, probably even worse, incompatibility with an ever increasing array of browsers, websites, devices and other ways people can find and access us (let alone actually use the site).


Proposed solutions:

  • We abandon the site altogether and all meet up somewhere else (losing everything posted here over the last five or so years).


  • We upgrade the site's programming language, design, integration potential and anything else holding us back, thereby holding on to our posts (though most likely with a lot of dead images etc), and hopefully ending up with something that newcomers can actually find and use without being scared off by false security warnings, broken links, slow uploads etc (though we still retain the right to scare them off with our occasional public blood feuds etc).



The risk:

  • Abandoning the site carries no great risk other than that we all subsequently fail to find a new place to meet up.


  • Upgrading the site "in situ", one which is 100% dependent on programmatic designs and workarounds absolutely all of which must be changed out, risks breaking it in a manner for which there is no way back.



Your mission Jim should you choose to accept it:

Is basically to decide if the risk is worth taking or not. Bear in mind I am an incompetent luddite who can't even change a lightbulb without bending the ballcock irreparably. On the other hand the site has managed to function, bent ballcocks and all, for half a decade based on the same "expertise".

Good luck with your choice.
(Furtively checks behind him for an exit while steadily creeping backwards towards it ....)

Nordmann,

"We abandon the site altogether and all meet up somewhere else (losing everything posted here over the last five or so years)."

I am not an expert. But as we all, (some twelfe I suppose) came from the old BBC board... We have managed to come together again on this board: Res Historica. Isn't it possible to create a completely new site and still keeping the old site in frozen status? As Lisa of the BBC in the time did for me. I still regularly do research in my old messages from the BBC as I do in a French site that is still in function but is nearly dead? I am still interested in all my utterings on this site and have to download them all before the end?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/
http://www.empereurperdu.com/tribunehistoire/


Or is it possible to include the "frozen site" as an "archive" to the new site?

In any case, I submit to the decision of the majority...

Kind regards, Paul.
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nordmann
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Wed 03 May 2017, 23:08

The plan is that it doesn't come to that, Paul.
Or the hope.

Or the delusion.

We'll see ...

(but I need more than 4 votes before I embark on anything)
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Thu 04 May 2017, 07:50

Go for it - a new trendy site will be really exciting and it is surely vital that the security and link issues are addressed.

If the worst comes to the worst, we can all huddle together as displaced persons on Historum (as Trike suggests above). We can then, if necessary, talk about a new home for our intrepid little band.

But with my prayers - I mean hecatomb rituals down on the farm (I won't actually kill anything, just chant a bit over and at the bewildered cows) - plus nordmann's undoubted expertise, all will be well.

I shall vote forthwith. We all have absolute confidence in you, sir, and are grateful that you are willing to undertake this - a lot of work and stress, no doubt.

The Temporary Shelter if Civilisation Collapses
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Thu 04 May 2017, 14:39

Come on, you lot - your vote matters!
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 13:16

"Bump"

It's Sunday, and while France goes to the polls to vote for the next President(e), there remains also another vital plebiscite here on Res His, for change or not.

I can't believe that only 10 people could be bothered or interested enough to vote in the 'Shall we call it quits' round ... surely that statistic alone says that we need to do something, no?
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 16:39

Okay I've cast my vote and well bumped Meles.

P.S. Vive Jospin!

P.P.S. Oops. Sorry. Twenty years out.

P.P.P.S. I must be living in the past.

P.P.P.P.S Either that or else the sunshine and syder have gone to my head. Mrs V has lit the barbecue don't you know.  tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 17:09

MM wrote:
I can't believe that only 10 people could be bothered or interested enough to vote in the 'Shall we call it quits' round ... surely that statistic alone says that we need to do something, no?


@Vizzer wrote:
 I must be living in the past.



I'm beginning to get the most horrible feeling that that is what we are all doing - all ten ( reduced to seven eight voters on this thread) of us.


Last edited by Temperance on Sun 07 May 2017, 17:21; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 17:19

Finally present and accounted for, it would have helped if the title of the thread had showed the urgency and importance of the topic under discussion otherwise I might not have been ignoring it for the last few days thinking it was just a bit of sillyness. Sigh.

Oh well better late than never.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 17:20

Temp wrote:
@Vizzer wrote: " I must be living in the past."

I'm beginning to get the most horrible feeling that that is what we are all doing - all seven of us.


Fitting for a history site. Let's just call it proactive archaeology.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 17:22

Crossed posts with Nordmann. Have edited my post - twice.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 18:03

No problem. I'm used to cross posts anyway.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 19:27

@nordmann wrote:
No problem. I'm used to cross posts anyway.


I'm certainly not cross - just a bit disheartened (pun intended). A small group of us is trying very hard to keep things active, but I for one am - er - losing heart even before the surgery begins.

I'm finding it a problem now to know what tone to adopt when I post here - should we go for a more academic style of writing, a style which is clearly favoured by nordmann, Vizzer, Paul and MM? Have some of us been too chatty and personal in our approach? Is the old, "friendly banter" type of discussion - which has actually, certainly in recent months, more often than not ended in discord - now quite inappropriate, especially when such discussion includes references and jokes that no one understands anymore, and which perhaps do make us sound like a clique of old fogeys? Perhaps the more academic style - dispassionate and impersonal and always serious - is the way forward. But it could get very boring. Lively, chatty, sometimes silly threads - those for example which discuss our rants, our raves and our favourite moggy stories and pictures - seem to be disapproved of by the management, even if such topics have been, on the whole, enjoyable and hugely popular (well, popular with some of us). Is a mixture of styles and topics still the best way?

More blog style posting (such as Meles Meles' excellent food messages) could prove to be successful, but such offerings involve a lot of hard work and it must be dispiriting to research stuff, write about it, and then wonder if anyone is bothering to read it. I find more and more that I want to write about various things, but it no longer seems worth the effort involved. And I prefer discussion threads; I need the stimulation of debate, even if, having no skill in rhetoric, I do usually get flattened.

This is after all nordmann's site, his baby. He perhaps should tell us honestly what his vision for the site's future is. Who do you want to attract here? What style of posting would you prefer? And what would you happily get rid off? And not just nordmann's vision would be helpful - what do most posters here want from the site? What irritates them? What do they find boring? What do they really enjoy? And what is it that has made the little band stay loyal to Res His, despite the disputes, huffs etc.?

Or are such "Let's talk about us" type of questions always a sign that a relationship - or history site -  is in Big Trouble?


Last edited by Temperance on Sun 07 May 2017, 22:58; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 19:44

@Temperance wrote:


Or are such "Let's talk about us" type of questions always a sign that a relationship - or history site -  is in Big Trouble?

Well now is surely the time, for all and everyone, to speak up.....

I worry about all the unseen members. There are about half a dozen members who have registered and indeed log in quite regularly (I see them, weekly sometimes) but then they just lurk and never post anything. They're certainly not bots or other false computer constructs .. with one at least I have had about as much correpondance through this site's personal message facility as I have in the open forum. I would very much like to hear their thoughts and opinions too ... what keeps them coming back loyally over several years, ... but equally what keeps them from participating more? Why do they always seem to want to take, yet never give anything? What is it that they want ... which they seemingly get only partially here? What do they think about the proposed changes?
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 07 May 2017, 20:17

Temperance in my opinion you have only to be your big yourself as we are used from you. And those some twenty or continuous lurkers have to pick up what they want. After all we have our own personalities and they have to be content with that... otherwise they have to look anymore at our site.
As an answer to Meles meles, the lurkers in my opinion are only interested in one or two items of our site and don't want to do the trouble to participate for the whole, while they aren't interested in the whole.
For instance in my case of the Historium website...I only look each day to the "General History" and the "European History"...most subjects nevertheless don't interest me as "the best of.." "or the worst of..."...only the real historical subjects interest me and they have to be of geopolitical importance or as for European history close to my neck of the woods, while my knowledge of that is the best...for subjects about the history of history, civilization or for instance evolution of the world I would also enter the discussion...that means that I only once a fortnight or every three weeks enter a subject...
The same at the French site Passion Histoire:
http://passion-histoire.net/


Kind regards, Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 08 May 2017, 00:29

Dammit, clicked the wrong button and lost a lengthy post. So here's a brief resume -

Yes Temp, we need a wide range of posting styles on an equally varied range of topics. Something for (almost) everyone who has an interest at the level that suits them. And laughs as well as deep thoughts.

So why have quite a few of the older members stopped posting, newer ones contributed a few times or not at all and then disappeared and why don't we attract more new blood?

We're hard to find, without our full title we only appear on the first page of a search if you use exactly the term 'historyboard'  Even using 'Res Historica' we get all tangled up with that Polish lot. Could we improve our prominence in results?

We must therefore be being accessed by searches for particular word combinations and that may well be by people who are not necessarily wanting to enter into discussion, just seeking information. In part at least that might explain the traffic on the 'What is Art' thread given that the number of names, key words and phrases it contains will pull in quite a few search engine results
Interestingly, of you search for 'Shall we call it off?' there we are on page 1. Go figure.

So how do we tempt these accidental visitors who would find themselves in the midst of one of the threads to stick around and then join up? I lurked for a long time before feeling confident enough to join the old BEEB board. How does the 'Recent activity' page look to a stranger? Do we need some more general topics there, ones where questions, opinions and speculations could be hosted in a fairly relaxed manner (as promised in the Welcome blurb?
Should we try to liven up the Tumbleweed suite and add 'the pub' to its title so it's clear?
Talking of the Tumbleweed suite, on the home page it says:

Sit back, relax and imbibe (if only the banter). Guests passing through and who want to say "hello" are welcome to partake of a refreshment or three here in the Tumbleweed Suite.  'Guests' would imply, to me anyway, that non-members can post there so it might be worth changing the wording.

LiR, if you are around, how did you find us and what were your initial impressions? As a relatively recent victim member, your opinions would be helpful.

I've just spent a wee while browsing through the old BBC board and there's a lot to be said for its simplicity of design even if it is a bit dated. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/NF2233809
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 08 May 2017, 01:10

@Temperance wrote:
Have some of us been too chatty and personal in our approach? Is the old, "friendly banter" type of discussion - which has actually, certainly in recent months, more often than not ended in discord - now quite inappropriate, especially when such discussion includes references and jokes that no one understands anymore, and which perhaps do make us sound like a clique of old fogeys? Perhaps the more academic style - dispassionate and impersonal and always serious - is the way forward.

This seems to be a bit of a false dichotomy. From my perspective, at least, much of the attraction of Res Historica comes precisely because there are so many different types of threads with such differing styles of engagement. Threads of a more serious subject matter can easily co-exist with lighter ones and do. In fact what strikes me as amazing about Res Hist is that with barely a baker's dozen of regular posters there is, nevertheless, such a breadth of knowledge on widely differing topics and often combined with great wit too.

There's Meles whose knowledge of the history of technology and also cultural history never ceases to awe. Then there are ferval and nordmann and their thorough grounding in archaeology. Their threads about various digs and excavations are ones where I can indeed feel like a lurker because, although I much appreciate them, I often hesitate to contribute for fear of literally being out of my depth. Then there is yourself Temp and LiR with both of you obviously very widely read in literature. Your ability Temp to pull up an obscure yet apt quote from a writer or poet in order to illustrate a point is a gift which I can only look on with envy. There are Id and Gil with their undoubted expertise in the classics and ancient history. There's Priscilla with her grasp of the Orient and imperialism and not to mention an uncanny ability to open new threads which often then turn out to be among the most interesting. There's Paul who brings a much valued continental perspective and (along with nordmann and Meles) also provides invaluable input regarding linguistics. There's Caro with practical experience of actually running a museum. There's Nielsen giving a Scandinavian viewpoint while simultaneously managing to write in English better than I do. And last but not least there's Trike always with his finger on the pulse and a knack for making astute connections between topics leaving you feeling like you've just been overtaken on the road and left in a cloud of dust by someone grinning on a big red motorbike.

And I haven't even mentioned the history of ideas and philosophy ...

The Tumbleweed Suite, the Rave and Rant threads and the Moggy and Doggy threads etc are merely extra fun parts of an already fun cake. It would be a mistake to see them as being in opposition to others.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 08 May 2017, 03:57

@ferval wrote:


I've just spent a wee while browsing through the old BBC board and there's a lot to be said for its simplicity of design even if it is a bit dated. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbhistory/NF2233809


It is bizarre re-visiting the site after all these years, especially to read posts by myself of which I have absolutely no memory of writing whatsoever. Did I really say that? Mmmm obviously I did.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 08 May 2017, 08:26

Site visibility to search engines is working ok. The rule of thumb globally is that if your site appears on the first 300 pages of a search result you're doing well. You're part of the less than half of one percent of web entities which have established an identity and have successfully maintained it. Res Historica, depending on the individual search, often figures in the first five pages of engine's results, so that bit is doing as well as it can be. Where it suffers in that respect is in the number of occasional hits - which number daily in their thousands by the way. A site with a higher visibility due to legacy traffic patterns but with only marginally better daily performance stats (such as Historum, for example) will often score higher in searches. This is something that Google and other engines are constantly addressing and in fact since Res Historica began our site's relevance quotient has grown exponentially. Still a way to go, but - over all - that end of things is healthy. We're not actually that hard to find - at least compared to even two years ago.

Getting visitors to hang around is a separate challenge. Any site such as this must allow for what you are calling "lurkers". This is totally natural web behaviour - we all do it on sites that we visit regularly. And in internet terms this is "hanging around" and a good thing. "Fly by" traffic however is where the challenge lies, and that is the drawback of a discussion forum - where people looking for opinions or answers find the site, and then find that the theme in which they are interested is being debated rather than presented as an answerable topic. Such visitors might even hang around long enough to check out other pages on the site, but they are still far more likely to go away without coming back, not because they don't like what they found as much as they still haven't found what they were looking for online at that moment.

Inviting non-members to contribute, even if only in a "neutral" pub area, used to be a great way to ease people into regular visits and was my intention at the beginning too. But I'm afraid it's just too risky a strategy these days. I will certainly re-design the pub and the wording if needs be, but it will be to lock it down further rather than open it up.

Site promotion using social media is, I'm afraid, the best and safest way to encourage participation. Even cross-linking from other sites of similar interest (as used to be best) has dropped dramatically in effectiveness in recent years. However having a social media identity closely linked to the discussion forum is a proven method of encouraging interest and participation, especially if site members actively engage in social media themselves and therefore can help with the minimum profiling this strategy requires. In our case this is still a challenge due to our existing social media use, but it's still worth pursuing. It does not require one to become a "facebook" regular user or similar, but does require the ability to help establish Res Historica's facebook presence (or similar).

When it comes to the proposed upgrade, I've been rather disappointed after investigating the options open to me at the moment. Exporting of the database from Forumotion is not allowed - or at least it involves a rather expensive and unreliable transfer of licence in which Forumotion provides no software to do the job and withholds several intrinsic parts of the structure. In other words one has to purchase a new site, build a database in which to import the data, pay to expand the licence with Forumotion to allow access to the database there, pay for the software used to effect the transfer, and then - even if the stuff gets transferred - spend time and money splitting everything back up into categories, threads, etc, with no guarantee of a usable product at the end of it all.

This leaves us with a rather limited set of options regarding redesigning the site. The present language we use programatically - phbb2 - is outdated and need changing. Forumotion provides two possible alternatives regarding what I would call sensible upgrades. One language - Invision - allows for an easy transfer of formats etc, and will certainly help in making a site that "looks" more modern. However it is itself now getting on in years and has limitations with regard to integrating graphically with other sites, such as Facebook, in a manner that allow dynamic linking and the other things I was hoping to use. The other available alternative, "ModernBB", is the one that allows all this, but Forumotion offers only a beta version (ie. under development and filled with bugs), which I have tested this weekend and decided it's not worth the risk, at least just yet.

So if you want a "Systems Analyst's" breakdown of our "to do" list with regard to a strategy for improvement of site health and activity growth it's as follows:
1. Establish an identity on other popular media.
2. Promote this identity's profile through that media's existing tools and methods.
3. Ensure a sustainable, integratable and dependable discussion site behind that identity (ie. migrate from soon to be obsolete program language and formats etc)
4. Reformat the site's appearance, "feel", "bookmark options", and "hooks" so that visitors are inclined to hang around and re-visit.

We are in the position where we need to prioritise 3. above before we can even think about 4, and even before 1. and 2. can be achieved with greatest effect. However 1. and 2. we can in fact still be doing now, even if in a limited way.

All of the above assumes that existing members want to keep going with the site and are interested in assisting with the site's promotion.

Vizzer - I know nothing about archaeology really. I used to dabble in a voluntary way, but when I did a "Schliemann" accidentally on a midden one unfortunate day many years ago I knew the gig was up. Now I just agree with ferval. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 08 May 2017, 08:39

To answer Temp's earlier question regarding what I would like to see in how people discuss things here - I have no problem with the existing behaviour whatsoever. I dislike being called "management" in that respect in fact since I do not think it's my responsibility to dictate what and how members wish to contribute to the site - it's theirs, not mine, in that respect (cats and all).

I reserve the right to intervene if members' behaviour is potentially harming the site's ambition to appear as an inviting and integral forum for others. But that reservation really only kicks in when two kinds of behaviour are displayed - insensible input (from phishers, trolls, and occasional lunatics), and descent into Trump-speak (ie. gratuitous abuse). We've only had a small bit of the first and thankfully as yet none of the latter.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Tue 09 May 2017, 07:56

Thanks to MM, Paul, ferval, Vizzer and nordmann who responded.

But the fact that only five people did speaks volumes, does it not?

The reference to "management" was not a snide one; and the questions about whether the more lighthearted threads will still have a place was genuine. I'm glad that some silly threads will stay, and that we shall not have to be all serious and proper in the next life.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sat 20 May 2017, 09:45

Despite the majority suggested by the above, I reckon the low "turnout" in the poll speaks louder. From my point of view it's a lot of work and a lot of risk to vamp up the site - and seeing the problems our "core membership" experienced after a simple SSL certification maybe not the best policy to pursue anyway?

If anyone can get in touch with LiR maybe they can let her know that a DNS cache flush is probably all she needs.

In the meantime I suggest we simply let things chug on as they are. By the looks of things the issue of whether to upgrade or not has been answered as emphatically through apathy as it ever could have been by a mere poll anyway.
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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sat 20 May 2017, 11:14

Yup ... sadly I think you're right.

Why bother indeed when so few people actually give a stuff? Very few 'members' it seems could even be bothered to show enough interest to even register an anonymous vote. So why bother indeed?

So then ... there's to be no risk of sudden death during surgery, just probably a slow withering away, unless we can increase the active membership.


Last edited by Meles meles on Sat 20 May 2017, 17:42; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : A spelling, some typos and a harder stance .... but who cares anyway?)
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sat 20 May 2017, 15:51

Seconded MM.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 07:58

@nordmann wrote:


If anyone can get in touch with LiR maybe they can let her know that a DNS cache flush is probably all she needs.



I thought you had everyone's email address, nordmann? What about Paul - he seems to have disappeared, too.

If LiR is anything like me, the expression "DNS cache flush" would baffle her. An embarrassing admission, but the truth. You perhaps underestimate the extent of some people's ignorance of even the most basic computerspeak and, certainly in my case, their horror of it. I fear fiddling about with the machine lest I do something really awful. I have been lucky and, apart from never getting notifications now (and I did manage to "unblock" Res His from dodgy sites - had no effect whatsoever), I have had no problems. I occasionally still get the security alerts, but simply click on "Proceed" now and all is well - for a bit.

People stop posting for a variety of reasons - lack of response is one. Irritating people is one thing: feeling you are simply boring them is another. You yourself, nordmann, seem pretty bored with the site now - or am I wrong?

Then again, it's summer and people are often busy. Ferval, for example, is probably digging away in a big hole somewhere, and Priscilla is no doubt adding another luxurious storey to the accommodation she provides for the snails in her garden.

But let us chug on, chaps. Nothing wrong with a bit of chugging - better to chug than to wither.


Last edited by Temperance on Sun 21 May 2017, 13:55; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 10:26

Carry on chugging?  Sorry Temp but much as I want this place to carry on, and indeed flourish, there's no way I'm donning a tabard and going out to accost strangers with pleas to support our little refuge for the historically bewildered.




I'm inclined to agree with MM, if we remain forum based then there is probably little point in nordmann slogging away at making significant changes, we are experiencing a general trend towards the rapidly declining use of message boards in general. The behemoths of Facebook and Twitter etc are the prevailing hosts for this sort of thing and, as well as the difficulties of migrating to one of those, I have reservations about them. I was out the other night with an IT professional who refuses to join any of these because of their data collection practices and the uses to which that data is put. Maybe we must remain that wee group in the snug, blethering on quietly amongst ourselves while the public bar resounds to raucous and largely vacuous chatter.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 10:51

@ferval wrote:
Carry on chugging?  Sorry Temp but much as I want this place to carry on, and indeed flourish, there's no way I'm donning a tabard and going out to accost strangers with pleas to support our little refuge for the historically bewildered.


I am now not only historically bewildered, but also linguistically so. I thought "chugging" meant trundling along in a calm and determined manner, rather like Thomas the Tank Engine. It just shows you how little we (I )understand our (my) own language. Chugging is defined rather as a noise:


1.(of a vehicle or boat) move slowly making regular muffled explosive sounds, as of an engine running slowly...

Nothing to do with accosting strangers in the street. I am confused.

However, these days I usually take the precaution of consulting Urban Dictionary, lest I make some horrendous faux pas. I wish I had done so this morning.  Shocked  


@ferval wrote:

Maybe we must remain that wee group in the snug, blethering on quietly amongst ourselves while the public bar resounds to raucous and largely vacuous chatter.


Ys, blethering is good. But please do not let us wither, like that very unfortunate fig tree, cursed by God. (See Bible.) Let the rest of the world do as it wishes; they need not concern us. I'm all for splendid isolation.

Thir isnae an embarrassment in the world that cannae be erased by a bit ay blether and a few bevvies. (Attributed Robert the Bruce.)
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 10:56

Don't check the Urban dictionary for this please, Temp, Oxford Living is enough and less likely to disturb on a Sunday  morning.

chugging
NOUN

mass noun
British
derogatory, informal
The action or practice of approaching passers-by in the street to ask for subscriptions or donations to a particular charity.
‘the committee called on charities to publish their spend on campaigning and for tighter rules on chugging’


Chugging = charity mugging.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 10:58

Well I never - a nice portmanteau word.

See, you learn something everyday here at Res His...
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 11:55

Well, I managed to get back on to the site after instructions on changing a couple of settings kindly supplied by nordmann.  (So I did manage to get round the DNS thing, Temperance, though as I say nordmann provided the instructions how to do so - thanks, nordmann).

'Chugging' in the sense mentioned above is a contraction of 'charity mugging', Temperance.

I like to visit this site - I don't have a pertinent comment to make on every subject obviously - and then what is a pertinent comment to me may not be so to another person.  For myself I hope the site continues but nordmann must of course decide whether it is worth his time and effort for himself.  Having had to do studies at school that I found dislikeable and parts of my full-time job when I was working thus (having to be pleasant to rude clients when my instinct was to say "How dare you speak to me like that" - that type of thing) I wouldn't want to wish a job (especially when it's an unpaid one) that has become onerous on anyone.  I don't mind a bit of lowbrow chat and banter from time to time but if that irks other contributors to the board I'll try to be more consistently serious in tone.  I have avoided Facebook and Twitter like the plague as they appeared intrusive - though I suppose I could create an email address solely for use with Facebook and another for Twitter.  I already told LinkedIn I didn't want them firtling through my emails but have had some "Do you know x, y and z" emails from them so I may have to either unsubscribe from them or create an email solely for use with them.  Having said that some people I know use Facebook for keeping in touch with family and friends scattered to the four corners of the earth so I suppose it has its good points.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 13:54

@nordmann wrote:
I know nothing about archaeology really. I used to dabble in a voluntary way, but when I did a "Schliemann" accidentally on a midden one unfortunate day many years ago I knew the gig was up. Now I just agree with ferval. Smile

It just goes to show that how one perceives oneself and how others perceive one can so often be very different things. No doubt that that precis of regular posters I gave will also have other members scratching their heads and asking themselves "does he mean me?".

In that post I mentioned 'barely a baker's dozen of regular posters' but I notice that (incredibly) I somehow managed to omit A-N from the list whose well considered postings, of course, often remind us how local history and global history always compliment each other and are inextricably linked. Apologies for that crass omission A-N. I can only blame the Normans for introducing cider to the English (or at least I think they did) as I had had a couple of scoops of the apple nectar before I posted that evening. Embarassed

So about 13 regular posters but of those only 8 have voted in this poll. So it seems Meles' point and 'harder stance' are more than justified.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Sun 21 May 2017, 14:03

LiR wrote:
 
(So I did manage to get round the DNS thing, Temperance, though as I say nordmann provided the instructions how to do so - thanks, nordmann).


You're a better woman than I am then, LiR! Even with careful and patient teaching, I am very slow about all things technical. I still remember nordmann and ferval trying to teach me how to post a picture here: we got there in the end, but nordman said it was like assisting at a very difficult birth!

EDIT: And Normanhurst used to post really good questions that made for some really interesting topics: he's still around but doesn't start threads anymore. Come on, Normanhurst - don't let us wither and die!

And where is Priscilla? She and nordmann were speaking to each other again last time I looked. Have they gone all huffy again?
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 22 May 2017, 04:53

I didn't vote in the poll (I think) because I was happy to go with whatever was decided by others more technologically advanced than I am.  But I am more than happy I don't have to negotiate a new system.  I think I know how to post pictures here but it consumes my time trying to remember what to do, so I rarely try.

And I have already given my reasons for not posting here much, though sometimes I come across some hsitorical event or person I don't know much about, and though I could check wikipedia, I prefer to ask at a messageboard.  And I haven't enjoyed my foray into Facebook at all.  Everybody "liking" everything and lots of pictures everywhere when I am a words person.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 22 May 2017, 07:09

@Caro wrote:
...and lots of pictures everywhere when I am a words person.


And there in a nutshell is the problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Shall we go for DIY open heart surgery?   Mon 22 May 2017, 09:46

I thought I had read ferval's post about "chugging" properly but I see now (possibly because it's morning now and I'm more alert) that ferval had already given the meaning of charity mugging, so my explanation was redundant but I can't be a***d to delete it.

I don't know whether there is any info about it here but wasn't Facebook at one time one of a few social media sites - MySpace was another I recall though I never joined it, but somehow Facebook "just growed" and seems to be the main one. Twitter I suppose by its nature encourages people to keep things brief - I have to be careful I don't waffle on too much (not careful enough do I hear people muttering?).

There hasn't been anything from Catigern for a while...I quite liked his comments even if they were a tad acerbic. He (I think he is a he, sorry if you chance on this and you are a lady, Catigern) was knowledgeable and even at 60-something I don't mind learning new things (might draw the line at pole dancing though, not got the energy).
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