Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Amsterdam, London, New York. Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:30 am
Just in the middle of my work the complete system was blocked and my computer didn't react anymore and suddenly the whole screen was gone
I start again with what I have in a haste written down on paper:
I just saw some days ago these three documentaries in French on Arte about Amsterdam, London and New York. I saw there the birth of the sawmill in Holland in the Golden Age. I prepared a thread about these sawmills, which gave the Dutch a big advantage on their competitors, as they could saw planks as ten times quicker than with the hands, meaning they could build ships much more easier and in a shorter timeas the wood preparing was done in less time, hence more ships and more potential for world trade. And all that because I supposed there wouldn't be an English version of these documentaries. But after a quikc research I found that there is Arte in English and some documentaries are available with English subtitles...it's a lesson for me to check first if the docus aren't available on Arte in English... As the computer blocked perhaps from the quick inserting of these docus I will try in an addendum for fear to lose again my message...
Kind regards, Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:49 am
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:07 am
I searched a bit everywhere with birth of capitalism and according to the French historian Braudel capitalism is not the same as "market economy"...to summarize I didn't find that much to categorize the four episodes in a coherent synopsis... perhaps the best is from the first episode in the English dubbed French documentary: "Over four centuries the cities of Amsterdam, London and New York dominated the world economy creating exceptional innovation and new models of urban living. In this episode the rivalry between the two old world cities boils over into open conflict leading to a decisive moment for New York."
At one side an exceptional innovation and new models of urban living (feeded by the big capital influx from the trade in my opinion) and on the other side a daring economy feeded by its entrepreneur merchants, who had the benefit of the stock exchange, rewarding their daring and their efforts. Merchants who many times form a temporal group, with shares for one particular project. And all that was already started in Venice and Bruges, with later Antwerp, from which a great portion of merchants escaped to Amsterdam in the war with Philip II. And by this every greater growing economy they were able with their many ships to dominate the world trade and with their money had access to all the raw material and food stocks wherever in the world, as for instance the woodstocks from the Ostsee to build their ships. https://www.prisma.de/news/Amsterdam-London-New-York-Doku-ueber-Kampf-der-Weltstadte,16179594 "Die vierteilige neue ARTE-Dokumentationsreihe "Amsterdam, London, New York – Weltstädte" zeichnet die Entwicklungen der Handels- und Finanzprojekte auf dem alten und neuen Kontinent nach, die immer weltumspannendere Ausmaße annahmen" The four episodes new ARTE documentary "Amsterdam, London, New York - worldcities, tells the developments of the trade and finance projects in the old and the new continent, which always more and more adopted worldwide dimensions.
Kind regards, Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:31 am
PaulRyckier wrote:
I searched a bit everywhere with birth of capitalism and according to the French historian Braudel capitalism is not the same as "market economy"...to summarize I didn't find that much to categorize the four episodes in a coherent synopsis... perhaps the best is from the first episode in the English dubbed French documentary: "Over four centuries the cities of Amsterdam, London and New York dominated the world economy creating exceptional innovation and new models of urban living. In this episode the rivalry between the two old world cities boils over into open conflict leading to a decisive moment for New York."
At one side an exceptional innovation and new models of urban living (feeded by the big capital influx from the trade in my opinion) and on the other side a daring economy feeded by its entrepreneur merchants, who had the benefit of the stock exchange, rewarding their daring and their efforts. Merchants who many times form a temporal group, with shares for one particular project. And all that was already started in Venice and Bruges, with later Antwerp, from which a great portion of merchants escaped to Amsterdam in the war with Philip II. And by this every greater growing economy they were able with their many ships to dominate the world trade and with their money had access to all the raw material and food stocks wherever in the world, as for instance the woodstocks from the Ostsee to build their ships. https://www.prisma.de/news/Amsterdam-London-New-York-Doku-ueber-Kampf-der-Weltstadte,16179594 "Die vierteilige neue ARTE-Dokumentationsreihe "Amsterdam, London, New York – Weltstädte" zeichnet die Entwicklungen der Handels- und Finanzprojekte auf dem alten und neuen Kontinent nach, die immer weltumspannendere Ausmaße annahmen" The four episodes new ARTE documentary "Amsterdam, London, New York - worldcities, tells the developments of the trade and finance projects in the old and the new continent, which always more and more adopted worldwide dimensions.
Kind regards, Paul.
To signal ladies and gentlemen, if you interested in this 3 hours documentary you have to look before 15 February, because then the English subtitled version is closed...
Again some research this evening about the evolution of the Western cities into the market economy, especially along the line Venice-Bruges-Antwerp-Amsterdam-London-New-York.
I sought for parallels. One parallel is obvious: they all lay more or less near the sea and are harbours. Another paralllel can be the special circumstances of being on the crossroads of two or more far away producing centers? Third: they have capable merchants and a thrusted finance center. But historical events can change their position as for Venice the shift from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic, for Bruges: the drying up of the Zwin for the access to the sea, for Antwerp the religious war between the Catholics and Protestants, the sack of Antwerp and the move from the Antwerp merchants to Amstardam, and for Amsterdam the envy of two kings Charles II and Louis XIV, which led to the combined war to the Dutch Republic (Charles II even receiving money from the French to fight for their cause (and of course also for their own cause, while eliminating a competitor). The final stroke comes then with William III moving to London and neglecting the already declining Republic in preference for the London affairs.
While doing research I was wondering, as I yesterday said, if Bruges was already a stock exchange or only a banking system.
I stop here for fear of losing my message, while moving several times to my sources in my "favourites"...
Kind regards, Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:13 am
Posts : 5079 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : Pyrénées-Orientales, France
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:44 pm
PaulRyckier wrote:
The word "borsa, beurs, bourse" seems to come from the family Van der Beurze, in keepers on the place where in and out the inn the financial exchanges kept place
Hmmm, maybe ... but in Modern French une bourse is simply a purse, and that word seems to derive directly from the Middle French, boursa, for a pouch, wallet or small bag, and ultimately from the Latin, borsa, a pouch. A modern burser/purser, for example on a ship or for a society (whether French or English), is still the official in charge of the ready cash, the purse, while a boursier is legally someone that gets a one-off subsidy or cash-payment direct from the petty-cash and separate from the regular accounts ... and in colloquial French, les bourses, literally meaning the money-bags, is slang for the bollocks/scrotum, in much the same way as in English one might refer to the 'family jewels'.
In Medieval Flanders and Northern France I believe the common street-sign for a money-changer or banker was often a stylised purse, ie a bourse, so possibly the Van der Beurze family took their name from the recognised purse/bourse symbol ... although I see from your link that the Beurze family symbol actually seems to have been a horse-shoe.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:03 am
Meles meles wrote:
PaulRyckier wrote:
The word "borsa, beurs, bourse" seems to come from the family Van der Beurze, in keepers on the place where in and out the inn the financial exchanges kept place
Hmmm, maybe ... but in Modern French une bourse is simply a purse, and that word seems to derive directly from the Middle French, boursa, for a pouch, wallet or small bag, and ultimately from the Latin, borsa, a pouch. A modern burser/purser, for example on a ship or for a society (whether French or English), is still the official in charge of the ready cash, the purse, while a boursier is legally someone that gets a one-off subsidy or cash-payment direct from the petty-cash and separate from the regular accounts ... and in colloquial French Les bourses, literally meaning the money-bags, is slang for the bollocks/scrotum in much the same way as in English one might refer to 'family jewels'.
In Medieval Flanders and Northern France I believe the common street-sign for a money-changer or banker was often a stylised purse, ie a bourse, so possibly the Van der Beurze family took their name from the recognised purse/bourse symbol ... although I see from your link that the Beurze family symbol actually seems to have been a horse-shoe.
Meles meles,
it can be that it is some marketing of those from Bruges...and so it came in the "international" circuit ...I think I mentioned it already on the BBC messageboard in the time...perhaps I am the one for the international rumour... But the man's name was really Van der Beurse, written otherwise depending on what sibling, because the name many times changed even from father on son...also writtten Van der Buerse and all... I did some research for my name and came to the end of the 18th century (didn't searched further in the city archives or in the parochial birth documents) But Ryckier was once for a forebear written as Rikir...) Can it be that that guy coincidentally named Van der Beurse and that the people called it as nickname "de beurze van Van der Beurze(those from Buges were even in my time known for their nicknames (many times denigrating)) and so the name of the beurze borsa bourse was born as the place where the money exchange happened...don' t say now MM that I aways know an escape route ...
Kind regards from Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:55 am
As I yesterday thought about the conditions for the growth of a big tradecenter near the sea, I forgot to say that harbours to grow , needed a "hinterland" or big rivers connecting to a hinterland. But even if those conditions were fulfilled, the political circumstances were as important as all the rest. Take now Ostend, that through circumstances, the closing of the Scheldt at Antwerpen by the Dutch, had great opportunities and perhaps if the Austrians (during the Austrian Netherlands) had been stronger, Ostend could have been grown to an equivalent of Amsterdam. And it was one of these political situations, the rivalry of Amsterdam and London, which at the end wrecked the Ostend project. But in the beginning it started well, first one thought to make of Dunkirk the big harbour to evade the Dutch blocking. But then Louis XIV came in the ownership of Dunkirk and the way for Ostend was again open. And the Austrians saw opportunities as Maria Theresia let connect many Flemish cities with canals, as the canal Bruges-Ghent and the canal Ostend-Bruges. So Ostend had via Ghent access to the Scheldt (Antwerp) and the Leie (North of France) , and perhaps if Ostend had grown and the need was there, perhaps a connection with the Meuse (as later in the 20th century: the Albert canal)
After Ostend was taken from the Dutch in a three years siege by Albert and Isabella it could be integrated again in the Spanish Netherlands
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:39 am
A tidal river is a great asset to a major port, Paul. It makes lighterage feasible - using the tides, a lighter can carry a couple of hundred tons from dock to dock with just a couple of watermen.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:18 am
Gilgamesh of Uruk wrote:
A tidal river is a great asset to a major port, Paul. It makes lighterage feasible - using the tides, a lighter can carry a couple of hundred tons from dock to dock with just a couple of watermen.
Gilgamesh,
yes completely right...I hadn't thought that far...but after further seeking on he internet I didn't find that much...do you mean for instance the Thames loading at a dock on low land and then going up the river with the tide unloading at another dock...at Ostend for instance there is a difference of some 4 meters...but there is no use of the tide while all is flat...? and immediately further there is a "sas" in Sas-Slijkens. I did recently research for the County of Flanders in connection with the Litus Saxonicum at Boulogne. And in that connection I came to the link with Dunkirk, where Bruges and Ghent searched to connect when the Zwin was dried up, but in the Austrian Netherlands there was conflict with Louis XIV and Dunkirk was taken by him. Thus the Dunkirk dream was canceled and Ostend was chosen as port to the sea...OOOPS I see that I already said the same in the Amsterdam-London thread... But I wanted to focus on Sas-Slijkens, while I saw on the old maps that the "sas"-Slijkens was already there in the time of Maria-Theresia...as was perhaps that other "sas" for the tidal river Scheldt in Sas-van Gent. I am so used to the word "sas" that I wasn't aware that it didn't exist anymore in Dutch...In Ostend when they say "zeje van 't sas", everybody knows what that means...after some painstakenly research I found among the controversies that "sas" means the space between two lock doors (sluisdeuren, portes d'écluse), we use the word also for the whole: de sluis, l'écluse, the lock. It seems that the word comes from French, but some sources say that the French word comes from the Dutch...
Kind regards, Paul.
PS: I wanted to start a thread this evening about "epigenetics" but too late this evening...
Gilgamesh of Uruk Censura
Posts : 1560 Join date : 2011-12-27
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:45 am
We call it the "chamber" or "basin" of the lock, Paul. Yes, the Thames was a good example of a lighterage port, but the Mersey also used a similar system. Do you have a Dutch word for a "gongoozler"? That's someone who stands and watches the activities on a canal - most frequently at a lock.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:12 am
Gilgamesh of Uruk wrote:
We call it the "chamber" or "basin" of the lock, Paul. Yes, the Thames was a good example of a lighterage port, but the Mersey also used a similar system. Do you have a Dutch word for a "gongoozler"? That's someone who stands and watches the activities on a canal - most frequently at a lock.
Gil, tomorrow comments...lost all my time with this:
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:26 am
Gilgamesh of Uruk wrote:
We call it the "chamber" or "basin" of the lock, Paul. Yes, the Thames was a good example of a lighterage port, but the Mersey also used a similar system. Do you have a Dutch word for a "gongoozler"? That's someone who stands and watches the activities on a canal - most frequently at a lock.
They translate it on the net as "passieve toeschouwers" Idle spectators. I know them, old men who stay the whole day in the street to look to the work (especially constructing works), but I have no name for them. Pottekijkers: but that is more in the sense of spies, to look at the work, how it is done to give if further to other workers, to duplicate it...
Kind regards from Paul.
Gilgamesh of Uruk Censura
Posts : 1560 Join date : 2011-12-27
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:03 am
The Americans used to call them "sidewalk superintendents". Still do, for all I know.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-02 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: Amsterdam, London, New York. Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:32 pm
Gil, did some further research, bit didn't find a term in Dutch... The English and American language is that much richer....or perhaps are the Dutch that active that they haven't a surplus to function as "sidewalk superintendents" (what a to the point name...) Perhaps, but I am not sure, I suppose we also say "de werkers aan de kant" the workers at the side...?
Home 
...I think I mentioned it already on the BBC messageboard in the time...perhaps I am the one for the international rumour... 
