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 The Balfour declaration.

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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: The Balfour declaration.   Sat 26 May 2018, 14:27

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Sparked by an announcement of Dirk Marinus on an historical Dutch montly about among others the role that Lord Lloyd had played in relationship with the Zionists to come to the Balfour declaration...
https://www.historischnieuwsblad.nl/nl/artikel/5554/de-honderdjarige-oorlog-tussen-joden-en-arabieren.html
(The Hundred Years War between the Jews and the Arabs)
Still doing research about it, I publish this already in anticipation to give the chance to the contributors to form their thoughts in advance.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/rothschild/
http://www.balfourproject.org/lloyd-george/
https://www.jta.org/1931/04/13/archive/mr-lloyd-george-explains-jewish-national-home-policy-i-was-prime-minister-when-balfour-declaration


Kind regards, Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Sun 27 May 2018, 10:08

Further research about the 100 year Balfour declaration.

Lord Lloyd already mentiioned. Other pro-Zionists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Mond,_1st_Baron_Melchett
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ormsby-Gore,_4th_Baron_Harlech

As I don't find an historical background in the "about us/home" we have that to take with precaution, however it seems quite competent.
Perhaps as the name suggest he is from Belgian or Dutch origin...he is speaking about sessions in the industrial environment...under his name I found managers of GM Wink ...perhaps (LiR conspiracy tendences) as he is still in business, as Meles meles will agree, one can not give political statements in such an environment Wink ...
http://world-news-research.com/25nov2016.html

"
“The context is that in 1917 the British wanted to do away with the problem that was created the year before by the Sykes-Picot agreement who split the middle east with the French but it left the future of Palestine undetermined and the British didn’t like that because they needed it for the imperial defense of India and Palestine left a gap in there. That’s why they started to agree with the Zionists in 1917. Thus the campaign for Zionism took on a new life because Britain needed to camouflage this imperialist priority because the British faced great criticism by the Americans on one side and more generally world opinion.”
Another key issue (which we shall explore in this first part) is the above also reflects on the struggle between Asquith and Lloyd George which split the upper echelons of the British government in the course of the First World War into two rival factions that were at odds over the question of the goals of the war, the way it should be conducted, and the outlines of the desired peace agreements and territorial arrangements that would follow it. Whereby the Balfour Declaration was published as part of the struggle taking place on the question of the future of the Ottoman Empire."


"The struggle between Asquith and Lloyd George which split the upper echelons of the British government in the course of WWI into two rival factions that were at odds over the question..."

First time I hear about that...can someone explain...Vizzer? Triceratops?...Perhaps the Irish origin nordmann?

Kind regards from Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Sun 27 May 2018, 21:55

Further on my question:

"The struggle between Asquith and Lloyd George which split the upper echelons of the British government in the course of WWI into two rival factions that were at odds over the question..."
First time I hear about that"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/george_david_lloyd.shtml
From the link:
"In July 1916 he became secretary of state for war, but was increasingly critical of Asquith. In December 1916, with the support of the Conservative and Labour leaders, he replaced Asquith as prime minister. Lloyd George's achievements in the last two years of the war included persuading the Royal Navy to introduce the convoy system and the unification of the Allied military command under the French general Ferdinand Foch."

"but was increasingly critical of Asquith. In December 1916, with the support of the Conservative and Labour leaders, he replaced Asquith as prime minister. "

I read in my research that they were opponents in nearly everything, especially about the Middle-East and Turkey. Asquith for the maintaining of Turkey and negociations, Lloyd for the hard way, new borders along the negociations of the Sykes/Picot influence lines? And Lloyd wanted to stay in a strong position against the French (Picot)...and in addition to his pro-Zionism, it was also interesting for the British policy that they could have the image to act in Palestine as protectors of that Jewish people, that!, persequted throughout Europe, and to act as such they had to stay in Palestine?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lloyd_George
https://www.britannica.com/biography/H-H-Asquith-1st-earl-of-Oxford-and-Asquith
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Asquith


From reading the last links: the Liberal Asquith negociating minded , the weaker one during war time, than the "Putin type" like Lloyd?

Kind regards from Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Mon 28 May 2018, 23:33

Reading further today, I can understand now that nobody replies, as it is such a can of worms...perhaps the "red thread? (rode draad)" through all this, that the Balfour declaration led to the "One Hundred Years War" between Jews and Arabs?
Further read about the Sykes/Picot...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement
And indeed about Lawrence of Arabia and Gertrude Bell...


Kind regards, Paul.
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LadyinRetirement
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Tue 29 May 2018, 21:25

I don't know an awful lot about this, Paul.  I see that there was a protest (or have you already mentioned that in one of the links cited) by Palestinians last year.  [url=https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East]https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East[/url]  A neighbour I was quite friendly with who sadly died of cancer a little over 5 years ago was the widow of a Palestinian man.  He was from a Christian background and apparently he said that pre-1948 (he was older than his wife though she was a widow by the time I knew her) people got along reasonably well in what was then Palestine, in fact his first girlfriend was Jewish.

It's probably coincidence but for some of the time I worked in London I lodged in what used to be "metropolitan Essex" in Ilford (now part of the London Borough of Redbridge).  There was a housing estate there which was either Victorian or Edwardian, I'm not sure which but it was called "The Commonwealth Estate" because all or most of the roads were named after places in the British Commonwealth.  There was - and still is - a Balfour Road there but I'm not sure if it was called after Balfour in Tasmania or Balfour Town in the Turks and Caicos islands.
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Tue 29 May 2018, 23:25

@LadyinRetirement wrote:
I don't know an awful lot about this, Paul.  I see that there was a protest (or have you already mentioned that in one of the links cited) by Palestinians last year.  [url=https://www.independent.co.uk %E2%80%BA News %E2%80%BA World %E2%80%BA Middle East]https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Middle East[/url]  A neighbour I was quite friendly with who sadly died of cancer a little over 5 years ago was the widow of a Palestinian man.  He was from a Christian background and apparently he said that pre-1948 (he was older than his wife though she was a widow by the time I knew her) people got along reasonably well in what was then Palestine, in fact his first girlfriend was Jewish.

It's probably coincidence but for some of the time I worked in London I lodged in what used to be "metropolitan Essex" in Ilford (now part of the London Borough of Redbridge).  There was a housing estate there which was either Victorian or Edwardian, I'm not sure which but it was called "The Commonwealth Estate" because all or most of the roads were named after places in the British Commonwealth.  There was - and still is - a Balfour Road there but I'm not sure if it was called after Balfour in Tasmania or Balfour Town in the Turks and Caicos islands.


Lady, thanks for your reply and coincidentally I just lost a message about all this a minute ago. Perhaps to too much googling while I was at my message..even the whole pagina closed and had to close my window and restart...

Yes, in my message I mentioned a book of the local library about a German Jew living in a kibbutz in the Twenties (not avaivlalble anymore I found out) and in the beginning there was cooperation as Jews buying land from local Arabs and even from Arab landlords not living there, but then they started with raids to occupy land and at the end the Arabs weren't happy anymore...but still when I visited  Israel end of the Seventies, Jews said to me that they visited the Gazastrip for their teeth, while the dentists there were much cheaper...and see now...

I start again my lost message:
Seeking for the 100 anniverseary of the "declaration" and as I now have finished my research...I see of the 76 words declaration quite another interpretation by the Jews as by the Palestines..one emphasizing some words and the other other words... national home...without endagering the rights of other religions and persons in the regio...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41765892
In the time of the BBC board I did a lot of research and contributing to threads about the Jewish-Palestinian question...it is not an easy question...but also a lot of irrationalism...saw a Frech documentary sometime ago about Jewish settlers on Palestine ground...a lady, very stringent saying...but that is land given by God to us...if you start with God in history...frightening...
I said also once that the British started perhaps with the Jewish home a day...but later another day in 1946..they had that much trouble that they even shortly had a British Madagascar Plan, shot down in flames because of the negative connotation of the German Madagascar Plan and on the French Passion Histoire there was even a lot of controversy about the French-Polish Madagascar Plan.

If I type "British Madascarplan 1946" I came immediately with one entry or two to my mentioning of it on Historum Wink
But I read it all in an in depth study from Hans Jansen about the several Madagascar plans:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13414180-het-madagascar-plan
I can it still consult in the local library. In the meantime there is now a German translation.
In the time I found on the internet that there were two Hans Jansen, a Dutch one and if I remember it well a Belgian from the VUB (university) and shortly religious teacher...but today nothing anymore, only the mentioned book...of the Belgian one...

Kind regards from Paul.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: The Balfour declaration.   Tue 29 May 2018, 23:35

Addendum:
Also in addition to the first BBC link this about the other side:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-41845461/palestinians-call-for-balfour-declaration-apology
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