I've left it a bit late to collect my apples from the tree in the back garden this year and some had already fallen as "windfalls".  I MIGHT be able to salvage something by cutting off any corrupted pieces and mixing the sound parts with blackberries or something similar.  (Did MM suggest something similar a few years ago?).

Should I have put my comment about apples in the tree thread?  Though I can't think off hand of any mythical connection with the apple tree (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong).  I was talking with someone I know about how in my younger days a lot of English people didn't want to eat "that foreign muck" regarding non-English (well non-British at least) food.  The other lady said that her parents were folk who stuck to the basic English fare when eating and that as a young woman she and her work colleagues went to a Chinese restaurant and she explained that she didn't know much about Chinese food.  A colleague suggested some savoury things for the first course and put forward rice as an accompaniment.  My acquaintance said "I don't think I'd like rice pudding with those savoury things" or something similar.  She thought it was funny in retrospect - her colleague explained that it was savoury rice.  I don't think someone in their mid to late teens nowadays would be unaware that rice could be savoury as well as a sweet.  In fact I probably use savoury rice more than sweet rice these days (probably due to memories of horrific school rice puddings) - though one can get or make rice pudding that is not horrific though if I use it I usually do it the lazy way and buy a tin.

I sometimes get email messages from Avaaz and Change and today I got one asking for a donation because the right wing are trying to attack the "climate kids".  Now I don't hate Greta Thunberg though I do find her annoying.  I'd rather young people felt motivated than that they were apathetic and thought about nothing but the hit parade and the latest fad TV programme.  I read that someone had made a quip that perhaps Greta Thunberg had wanted to get out of double maths on a Friday afternoon (though she could be brilliant at maths for all I know).  I do feel that the "climate change kids" are being manipulated to some extent.  There is a problem with pollution.  I'll admit I'm conflicted on the matter of the "climate change kids" and I do find Ms T's "How dare you?" etc somewhat melodramatic.  I'm not convinced she's the best mouthpiece or figurehead for a cause - though she HAS garnered attention.  I guess it remains to be seen whether she will change hearts and minds.

Some time ago I posted about the "coal arm" of the local canal (Staffs and Worcs) which used to run all the way into my hometown.  I've heard that the coal arm is going to be re-excavated/opened.  Of course there will have to be some changes - I'm assuming it will now cross the Penk (a tributary of the Sow which in turn is a tributary of the Trent) because the original course of the Penk was diverted some years ago to flow into what used to be called the Deepmoor Drain to somewhere near the original confluence of the Sow and the Trent was.  (I must admit I'm surmising as I haven't seen the map - somebody just told me).  They won't run the arm right into the town though (where the end of the coal arm used to be there are now offices and a relatively new multi-screen Odeon cinema).  I haven't been able to find a thread on canals (or on waterways in general) so if there is one I apologise for not posting there.

We went to a multi-screen cinema on Friday nite LiR (although admittedly not one in the way of a coal arm - as far as I know). That was to see Judy a biopic looking at the life of Judy Garland. Co-produced by BBC Films it was actually quite good in itself. For example I hadn't realised that she died in London and was only 47 at the time. I'd give it about 7/10.

I haven't seen that film yet, Vizzer but maybe I will give it a whirl when I get the chance.  I know that the actress playing JG's daughter (Lorna Luft not Liza Minelli) is Bella Ramsay who made an impression on viewers as Lady Lyanna Mormont in Game of Thrones.  She was also Mabel in the most recent version of Worst Witch.

Not sure where to put this.  When I went to attend the sign language class today (which is held in a modernish Baptist church which has lots of rooms built on as well as the main room which is used for worship) there was a message on the door that the building was closed for a deep clean because it might have been visited by someone (or ones) with norovirus.  From what I remember of my legal typing the norovirus is nasty.

Lady,

Norovirus, which causes diarrhoea and vomiting, is one of the most common stomach bugs in the UK. It's also called the "winter vomiting bug" because it's more common in winter, although you can catch it at any time of the year.

 Norovirus can be very unpleasant but it usually clears up by itself in a few days.

Thanks for the explanation, Dirk.

Fellow Res Historians, I've been with my cat to the vet's and the prognosis wasn't good so I'm feeling "down".  She's only a cat of course but one does bond with a pet.

On a different subject, I read something online that an effigy of Greta Thunberg from an Italian bridge.  Now, I know I find her a bit irritating (though her cause is sound), but she's 16!!!! Fancy doing something like that concerning a 16 year old.  Ms Thunberg has yet to learn that one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but if people aren't that keen on her they can just ignore her.

LadyinRetirement wrote:

On a different subject, I read something online that an effigy of Greta Thunberg from an Italian bridge.  Now, I know I find her a bit irritating (though her cause is sound), but she's 16!!!! Fancy doing something like that concerning a 16 year old.  Ms Thunberg has yet to learn that one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar but if people aren't that keen on her they can just ignore her.

Lady, 

we seem to be for some reason always completely in agreement.

Kind regards from Paul.

Vizzer wrote:

We went to a multi-screen cinema on Friday nite LiR (although admittedly not one in the way of a coal arm - as far as I know). That was to see Judy a biopic looking at the life of Judy Garland. Co-produced by BBC Films it was actually quite good in itself. For example I hadn't realised that she died in London and was only 47 at the time. I'd give it about 7/10.

Vizzer,

in the time up to and including the Cinemascope films I was a fervent visitor of cinemas, but by work, even in the weekend, and due to the television it became a rare event. Then again with the grandchildren a rebound and then already big screen. (Kinepolis). But, Vizzer, I saw in the time "multi-screen cinema as "Circarama" (circle vision?) in Xian China about the Qin dynasty... 
Also with the grandchildren at Poitiers France: https://en.futuroscope.com/attractions-and-shows
I see now that it isn't as 25 years ago with 3 D films, holography a kind of Imax and all that related cinema stuff...?
But if you mean IMAX with your "multi-screen" term, that is a great experience. I saw it at Scheveningen Den Haag Netherlands, last year in Omniversum.
https://www.omniversum.nl/en
A beautiful planet
https://www.omniversum.nl/en/filmcalendar/beautiful-planet
Look at the trailer.
One could also hire a kind of a headviewer, where you had the same experience as in the cinema. But there sitting in your corner and looking is not the purpose of the cinema I guess? Cinema has to be watched in group or with the family and in! the cinema? It is a social event?
We have only one in Belgium for the moment in Brussels.
But as I see it they have it in Britain too. Only that I don't see in the link where it is?
https://www.odeon.co.uk/cinemas/bfi_imax/211/

Kind regards from Paul.

Paul - a "multiscreen" is a cinema with multiple small(ish) rooms each with its own screen and projection facilities, showing different films (or in the case of popular films, 2 or more may show the same film at different times).

Green George wrote:

Paul - a "multiscreen" is a cinema with multiple small(ish) rooms each with its own screen and projection facilities, showing different films (or in the case of popular films, 2 or more may show the same film at different times).

Gil, now you see how difficult it is to have an in depth knowledge of a foreign language. Even within the Dutch language I have difficulties as the Southern Dutch words sometimes don't exist in the official language.
That said, overhere in Belgium, there don't exist but multiscreen cinemas anymore, as a monoscreen one isn't cost-effective nowadays. Or it  has to be one from a "cultural" subsidized circle. But in my time it was the golden age of the monoscreens. There were eleven of them in Ostend alone when I was young. 
I had prepared a thread about the first French circumnavigations of the world, including the first woman who did the whole tour, but still seeking for an "appropriate"  and to the point title...and anyway it is too late again to start half past midnight.

Kind regards from Paul.

Paul,

I only looked at the thread about the cats today.  My windows (the ones which needed doing) have been fixed but of course a house always needs jobs doing, so it's a question of putting a bit of money aside for the other jobs.

Nordmann told us earlier of the sad demise of his little wasp companion. He has moved the story to the Moggy thread, but I reproduce it (without permission) here. I hope the Boss will not mind, as I would like to add something about clever men delighting in unusual pets. I have mentioned this before, but ages ago (ferval was well impressed) - I suspect no current member will recall my tale.

nordman wrote:

Not a cat, or even a duck, but a wasp.


I and a member of that species have been living in peaceful cohabitation for about 5 months since he (I am assuming "he" on the basis that I spotted no obvious crown, ermine trimmings or tiara in evidence) meandered in through an open french-balcony door back in early May. Despite having open egress possibilities available to him pretty much 24/7 for four of these months my little pal seemed happy to spend his days flitting occasionally between some rotten jam provided for him by yours truly and the glass pane situated right next to the vast expanse of open window available to him, which very occasionally he head-butted, but I think just to show me that he was at least making token attempts to flee.

We came to an understanding very quickly about nocturnal flitting, and also where to hide when guests were present, and as long as the jam was there we also seemed to have established a very robust non-aggression pact that both sides honoured with diligence and consistency. His assigned role of guardian of the premises while I was out, even during a prolonged foreign holiday, he assumed and performed with what I can only describe as hymenopteric dedication to the role, and though his habit of insisting on watching TV at very close range could be irksome at times I put this down to the difficulty of obtaining spectacles for compound eyes containing thousands of independent focal facilities working independently, or at least ones at a reasonable price from Specsavers.

About a week ago as Autumn finally descended and I first had to actually close all my windows did I notice also that I hadn't actually seen my striated friend in a day or two, and it was a very poignant moment when I finally located him, more carapice than cadaver, curled up in peaceful repose behind the curtain, having presumably made one last venture to the pane to wish his fellow Vespula Germanicæ farewell and shuffle off this mortal comb.

I am not sure how old he was when he first came to jam with me, but based on how long he survived as a housemate I have certainly had my previous assumptions regarding Apocritical life-spans well and truly adjusted after the experience.

Of course it could always have been a few hundred little stripey beggars working in sneaky shifts, but I am prepared to be content with my more generous attribution of absolute gentlewasplike civility to a little Alloa Athletic pal.

What is it with clever men having peculiar pets? When I was "studying" in Oxford nearly half a century ago at the Ox and Cow (Oxford and County Secretarial College from which illustrious institution of higher education I was expelled for insolence and for being hopeless at shorthand), I had a rather brainy boyfriend who kept an illegal companion in his rooms. On first being introduced to the (invisible) little creature, I asked if anyone else in his college kept such an interesting pet - a plankton in a goldfish bowl? He looked pained and "reminded" me that the singular of plankton is plankter - he only had one. My poor Greek obviously signalled the relationship was doomed.

Apparently when a plankter grows up, it graduates to a nektic or benthic existence, but I haven't a clue what that means. I don't know what happened to the plankter I met or its snooty owner when they graduated. He (the owner) is probably an advisor to the cabinet now - or was before retirement. The wretched little plankter probably got flushed into the Cherwell.

The Pre-Raphaelite painter, Dante Gabriel Rossetti, had a pet wombat. And the French romantic poet, Gérard de Nerval, had a pet lobster, which he walked at the end of a blue silk ribbon in the gardens of the Palais-Royal in Paris. According to fellow poet, Théophile Gautier, Nerval said:

"Why should a lobster be any more ridiculous than a dog? ...or a cat, or a gazelle, or a lion, or any other animal that one chooses to take for a walk? I have a liking for lobsters. They are peaceful, serious creatures. They know the secrets of the sea, they don't bark, and they don't gnaw upon one's monadic privacy like dogs do. And Goethe had an aversion to dogs, and he wasn't mad."

Salvador Dali with his ???

Is it an ant-eater?

Dali also had an ocelot, called Babou, although compared to an anteater that's almost like a regular pet.

MM, quoting de Nerval, wrote:

Why should a lobster be any more ridiculous than a dog? ...or a cat, or a gazelle, or a lion, or any other animal that one chooses to take for a walk? I have a liking for lobsters. They are peaceful, serious creatures. They know the secrets of the sea, they don't bark, and they don't gnaw upon one's monadic privacy like dogs do. And Goethe had an aversion to dogs, and he wasn't mad."

Absolutely - lobsters don't bark (or buzz). Clearly a rational choice.

Dali was barking though, wasn't he?

Lord Byron kept many unusual pets including, you may be interested to know, MM, several badgers. He attended Trinity College, Cambridge (my father's old college) and defied the university authorities there by keeping as a pet a large bear (not a panda):



George Gordon Byron attended Trinity College, Cambridge, from 1805 to 1808. At this time, according to the statutes of the college, dogs were not allowed to be kept on the college grounds. Lord Byron was angry with the college rules, so he brought a tame bear as a pet.

The college authorities had an argument with the poet, but since there was no mention of pet bears in the statutes of the college, they had no legal right to expel the bear or its owner. Byron walked the bear on a chain and treated it like a dog. He would talk to it, and even wanted to apply for the bear to become a student at the college. It is not certain how Lord Byron acquired the bear, and when he left Cambridge in 1808, he took the bear with him to his estate in London.

Ah, but did Byron's bear dance like Simon Smith's?

LadyinRetirement wrote:

Paul,

I only looked at the thread about the cats today.  My windows (the ones which needed doing) have been fixed but of course a house always needs jobs doing, so it's a question of putting a bit of money aside for the other jobs.

Sorry LiR as it was a bit late yesterday evening and now just entering the site, after a copious dinner outside, I see after what nordmann said on the technical forum that I "was posting on the Moggy's thread" while I was thinking I was in the "pub". I blame the late hour for my mistake and not that I become older...

I copy my message here, as I thought the place to be, and will delete the message in the Moggy's and thank you for the update about your house.

@LadyinRetirement wrote:Poor Christopher Smart.  Having seen some of the crazy things I have on YouTube (but I'm not going down that rabbit hole again) suffice it to say that there are a still a number of people with religious mania and some of them have YouTube channels.  There were conmen and conwomen of course who jumped on the bandwagon with the "Pizzagate" fake news and collected money from well-meaning dupes to stop the satanic elites eating babies (I kid you not).  Getting back to something more grounded, alas mental illness is no respecter of persons; mention of Mr Smart started the niggling of a memory and I looked on Wikipedia about Guy de Maupassant the short story writer and while I'm pretty sure he didn't suffer from a religious mania he tried to commit suicide in January 1892 whereafter he was committed to the Esprit Blanche private asylum where he died in July 1893.  Lady in retirement, first of all, how is it now with the house. Is all the necessary work done now? And are you prepared by that for the winter then? About Guy de Maupassant... We had to read something in our French lessons from him, but the bulk of the literature lesson went to the big ones, at least in the eyes of our Roman-Catholic teachers. I think we didn't heard about Emile Zola, till my mother brought at home a novel from him in Dutch translation. But as I read now, sparked by your mentioning, the wiki. Indeed what a life and it is a pity that I didn't read more from him, when I had time. Now I have still to read the two works I mentioned to Caro lately to enter a discussion on the French forum about the transfer from the Roman Empire to the early Middle-Ages. "and while I'm pretty sure he didn't suffer from a religious mania he tried to commit suicide in January 1892 whereafter he was committed to the Esprit Blanche private asylum where he died in July 1893." LiR, perhaps not from religious mania, , when he tried to commit suicide, but perhaps from another mental depression? And as he had perhaps nobody to look after him, the city council had perhaps to decide to bring him to a private asylum? LiR, perhaps a digression, but in a pub (café) one can digress I suppose. As we in our household have two TV sets and two different accesses to the TV provider net, my partner and I mostly look to diiferent channels. I only to the French-German Arte as you have perhaps already remarked and each morning to the "teletext news" of the Netherlands and that of the French language official Belgian TV. (The Dutch language TV don't gave no teletext anymore, perhaps because the commercial competitor don't give it anymore too or perhaps because in the Flemish Dutch speaking region, the interest of the public is diminished for this oldfashioned way of news?) That said my partner is always looking to some five commercial channels and put selected programmes on the hard disc of the TV provider, so we can, as I do it too, scroll through the advertisements at a speed of X 2 to X 64...and I do it too, if some stuff is not interesting enough... To come to my point now: Sometimes we look together to the partner's programmes. And there are a lot of American programmes (perhaps because they are cheaper?) as from Dr this and Dr that. And I guess that are programmes, which cover the whole country in the US? I wonder if one has that in the UK too? I mean this made in USA Doctor programmes, for instance one with a doctor with a "heavy" American accent. And that one, when I was occasional looking to it, had a group or were it two women on the podium before an every time acclamating public. And as I heard the word "bible" in a doctor's programme, my attention was aroused...(and after all the programme is'nt for a Belgian public, but for an American one) And one of the ladies said that they formed a bible congregation (or how one names it in the US) and each week they had a session with wine and all that to study the bible to come closer to God and they made some "weet" cakes the lady said...and then the  doctor...and has that not some effect on the study? (or something like that)...of course the lady said... we older ladies may have also something in our old days...and when starting with the banana...the public again an acclamation...and the doctor..hmm in such a short time from nearer by God to oh, God...and on the first sight the doctors and the public laughed it off as rather normal... And also but then for my field of interest: political history: when I look to the offer, both for the Flemish and French speaking regions of Belgium, the Dutch language channels have more of that American stuff as I described than the French language channels as I see it on the first sight. That means for me that the Flemish region general public, grow more and more apart from the French speaking one. And that is for me a bad thing, as that can form strong group indentities, which differentiate from each other and undermine perhaps a democracy... but that perhaps is not a subject for a café and rather appropriate in a discussion about democracy?... Kind regards from Paul

Ah well, I watch things cooking, stuff going round in machines, speak mainly English and read it when watching moving pictures on a box and they speak something else. Any one else having a dull time too?

Time to restock the shelves, dust down the bar stools - open the cellar here ……. always interesting. We could open the Snug for members to share confidences too. Most pubs serve meals now - res hIst dragging its rear end on that one. Res Hist Bar snacks anyone?

Temperance wrote:

... He looked pained and "reminded" me that the singular of plankton is plankter - he only had one. My poor Greek obviously signalled the relationship was doomed ...

Your Greek may well have been in a rudimentary state of chassis at the time, but it certainly wasn't demonstrated to be so from this eejit's put-down (however much it "pained" him to deliver it), a suppression of a particular type the temptation to deliver being apparently beyond the powers of those even less acquainted with Greek than you were to resist. While a taxonomist might well have concurred with his identification of his pet as a "plankter" (singular), the deduction that this is therefore the singular of "plankton" owes less to Greek than it does to a failure to have practiced enumeration beyond differentiating between one and several, and then plucking any old term out of the air to replace "one" and "several" with respect to any single taxonomic species and the words to henceforth apply to these, and then arbitrarily choosing the Greek language (imprecisely) as a source.

One finds this with arbitrarily selected eponyms for "new" things all the time, and the inclination to incorrectly use Greek and/or Latin terms grows in direct correlation to how "high brow" the appellator wishes the "thing" to be regarded, and worse, this imprecise vocabulary then simply being popularised through eager use by those whose primary wish is that this "high brow" quality should accordingly be conferred on them also.

"Plankton" - which, when first recordedly used in 1889, correctly employed the Greek neuter of "plazesthai" (to wander astray, to roam aimlessly), was in fact one of the very rare occasions when a botanist/scientist, charged with the ego-inflationary prospect of assigning a brand new name to a brand new discovery, actually went to the trouble of applying semantic exactitude to the operation (he was a German, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised by this). His dilemma was that as yet the taxonomic nature and actual range of special deviation had not been identified, merely the presence, amount, and some understanding of the chemical make-up of the organism. All that was really understood (somewhat falsely as it turned out) was that these organisms existed in their many billions and appeared to "wander aimlessly" through the depths with no apparent means of propulsion and no apparent capacity to employ one if they'd had it. Knowing that someone was bound to come along later and achieve a better understanding of the organism, but still wanting to be first to give it a name that would stick, the scientist therefore consulted Greek grammar for as non-descript a noun that could be extrapolated from the "plazesthai" verbal root but which would not translate simply into "wanderer" (which implies some free will and intent on the part of that which is wandering). Having therefore shunned "planómenos", or even "periplanomenos" (that which wanders, or that which wanders a lot - the second still being a modern Greek term for "tramp") he dug deeper into Homeric Greek grammar and found the marvellous "-kton" suffix which, when applied to a verbal stem to create a noun, added a quality of uncertainty to that noun, denoting in fact something that skirted the boundaries of knowable and which therefore suited his particular dilemma completely. Even better, he found that "plankton" ("that which is said might possibly wander") didn't even need invention, it had been used to describe Helios himself, as well as many other observable cosmic phenomena, in the dim and distant past. And so we inherited the term as a taxonomic descriptor - both singular and plural - of this particular organism which, at the time of discovery, was almost certainly in fact several different distinct organisms yet to be ascertained and, as was envisaged by Viktor Hensen, almost certainly going to end up being the descriptor for an entire classification within taxonomic rules, especially phenetically (and he was right).

In 1935, and now in the hands of an American, a new challenge arose. Study of plankton had advanced to a point where it had it been established that there was a predominant strain within the special deviation, and it was this that was most normally identified as being "plankton", the others having to settle for crudely constructed variations (proto-plankton, alba-plankton, and other semantically excruciating combinations that even make "television" look good as a word). Now at the point where individuals from the species were being selected and studied in microscopic isolation, this (anonymous) destroyer of semantic worlds operating in the backwoods of Ohio, decided he needed a name for just such an individual (though "plankton" was adequate in fact - especially when prefaced with an "a"). Not for him however the arduous and time consuming trawl through grammar, vocabulary and syntax to isolate a semantically exact eponym as unique as that which it would now describe. Instead, using Mirriam-Webster or some such pretence of a dictionary to find the etymology of "plankton", he (or the dictionary) got no further than "wander" with no reference whatsoever to the epistemological indeterminacy of the Homeric construct so beautifully coined back in the 19th century. Without even taking five minutes of basic research to discover that -kton had never been a plural, he decided for no reason known to any Greek, living, dead or Homeric, that -kter would then suffice as a singular, no doubt in his semantically enfeebled mind a "just dandy" coinage - even though in fact it was an atrociously bad "koineage".

Fast forward to the vicinity of the Cherwell some decades later and what do we find? A slave to American illiteracy establishing a false superiority through an equally false assumption that they "knew" Greek based on a badly deduced eponym that was, in effect, unforgivable given that the clue to avoiding making the semantically disastrous mistake had been intelligently (and beautifully) made an intrinsic part of the word itself that had been chosen to describe the species in the first place. He certainly did not know enough Greek to imply that he knew more than the next person (I would wager he in fact knew less, having so singularly failed to recognise the false singularity of his "pet"). He probably knew enough to have pursued a later career in taxonomy. Though given his linguistic and personality limitations he in fact might well have been wiser to pursue a career that employed something of what he had learnt (badly) but which could be pursued alone with less opportunity therefore of offending others on a day-to-day basis through verbal expression of a misplaced sense of superiority using semantically stupid terms.

Taxidermy, maybe? (which I hope was also along the lines of what you advised him to do - though perhaps using more robust Anglo-Saxon roots to your expression?).

Oh, wow - thank you for that, nordmann - you have made me feel so much better, even if fifty years too late. I do so wish I had the plonkter's email address: I would send him a copy of your excellent post. But I don't, and yes, I did politely (we were all too nice back then to use robust language) terminate the relationship very soon after the humiliating incident. I think I tried to laugh it off at the time, but it's significant I have remembered it.

Gosh, I feel old. Back to watching things go round and round in the kitchen and in Westminster.



PS MM should be put in charge of snacks - if he has time? The Res His Snug, Priscilla? I thought the cellar doubled up as that?

You mean like an oubliette?

Temperance wrote:

... I do so wish I had the plonkter's email address...

I see what you did there ...

Incidentally "plonkton" would be a perfectly adequate Homeric rendition of the verb "πλόος" (plous - "to poison with the mullein plant") which could therefore of course mean "he who probably deserves to be fatally poisoned with a subtly lethal chemical disruption of the bowel lining's ability to digest over a long period and with gradually increasing levels of abdominal agony". If, using American logic and lack of respect for semantics when inventing words, a particular victim could in fact be identified then he would of course be a "plonkter".

Instead of sending him an e-mail I suggest sending him a more traditional missive explaining all of the above, and of course enclosing a few tea-bags.

An oubliette must be an alternative name for a tortilla memoria. Will those be served in the snack bar along with watercress & stuffed plankton sandwiches?

As I cannot spell and therefore should not be in charge of the menu I have no idea. There had better be no nuts in the plankton stuffing - I am developing an allergy for nuts of all types - and typos come to that. Now am off to the dentist. I could later inform the world of the experience via Res Hist - or of the elderly mags in reception there - in two languages too = English and bad = if you think it will interest the other posters. I am a 4 poster person for a day so will arise  now and go to Isnotfree.

Maybe we should go oriental with the snack bar ....





Can one get an extra pinch of salt with number 0417?

'God with Vanilla,' could well become an entry for the Benefits of Religion and Temps could prepare. Perhaps you may like to take responsibility for preparing the most interesting selection you suggest abpve...… may be just samples to begin with mm? Unless you expect high demand. I thought perhaps we might each prepare a regional delicacy for Bar Snacks. I could do Essex Thickies as mine - and all from my own Thickie  kitchen. This means a wide and surprisingly  consistant selection  of items about doorstep sarnie thickness such as sponges, eclairs fruitcakes, puff pastry, pancakes  pies and toad in the hole - which admittedly  looks more like road kill on thick toast. Essex crumpets are beyond my range.

Today I went to the local U3A monthly meeting (a talk) for the first time in ages.  The talk was about "What have the Moors done for us?" - and was about the influence of the Moors in Spain but it wasn't just a historical talk - the gentleman mentioned that rice and saffron (which remained become important in Spanish menus even after the Moors had left Spain) were introduced by the Moors to Spain - so a slight connection to the mention of various cuisine above.

I knew the barest of bare essentials about the Moors in Spain but couldn't claim to have an in depth knowledge.  Something the person giving the talk mentioned was that El Cid had been a mercenary for the Moors at one time and that he (the Cid) also tried to carve out some land for himself in Spain.  I was disappointed; I had always "bought into" the story of El Cid the hero.

The person giving the presentation said he took his title by a play on words in The Life of Brian "What have the Romans ever done for us?".  I

This is another thread to start. At the moment we are discussing the Bar menu for a bit - unless you want Moorish items - try to keep up!

I've always taken this to be a thread for posting if one is not sure where to post.  Rice and saffron are used in paella and paella is served in bars sometimes (well bars where they serve food anyway).  Local (to me) food - I suppose there are Staffordshire oatcakes though I'm aware oatcakes are made in other counties too.

One of the local eateries has an occasional tapas evening so I had Spanish food in mind today.

It's a long time ago (40 years) but I once had a part-time job in a pub and in all honesty customers talked about diverse matters.  Football cropped up frequently as a subject for discussion I remember and what was (then) currently in the newspapers.  Of course that was before online newspapers.

When I first found out I had the gluten intolerance I bought an oatcake lunch in a local cafe one day but then when I looked in a book for the recipe in said that wheat flour is used as well as oat flour. I could of course make oatcakes at home for myself using a gluten free recipe. I don't have a (working) TV at the moment so I've been listening to the radio sometimes - Radio 5 Live or Radio 4 for the news and sometimes Radio 4 Extra for a play.

I'm surprised (referring back upthread) that plankton is plural.  I tend to think of -on as being a singular form as in criterion, phenomenon and so forth.  My knowledge of Greek ancient or modern is non-existent so I don't know if Greek has (or had) declensions as Latin did (my thinking here being that criterion-criteria might be from a different declension to planter-plankton.

Ah yes - so your entry would be Staffies - a form of meaty  biscuit made of dog and rather suitable for this bar - and with a bit of a bite to it too. Not for vegans. of course. See nordman's entries above - your offering should compete quite well. I suppose I could run to minced winkle and whelk coil gateau - possibly with custard. This is such a demanding site with odd tastes.

Re. suitable bar snacks for Res His...

When I was a student in London in the late 1970s, there was a small, unpretentious, indeed rather scruffy café on the shabby but busy corner where the King's Road met the Fulham Palace Road (it was then a rather grotty, studenty end of London, now a highly desirable and very expensive locale). At that time this cafe shared their entrance portico and pavement space with an adjacent pet-shop, and both regularly had chalked signs out on the pavement describing the latest offers.

It took me quite a while to work out that the Grater Snaks, Baby Rarebits and Ginny Pies, were not actually delicacies offered by the cafe  ... but rather were newly acquired stock for sale by the dyslexic pet shop owner

No use discussing planks with me - tho I am in plank-head mood, today. Essex thickie is my great strength today. As for other languages, it's all Greek to me. Let's hear it for the Greeks! They make bar food of considerable mystery. I had better let Paul in about now - I bet he can do Belgian waffles.

I can offer a range of bostin fittle - grorty dick, gray pays, fillbelly, pigs feet amongst others - including some foreign dishes, such as fidget pie and shrewsbury cakes

nordmann wrote:

Temperance wrote:

... He looked pained and "reminded" me that the singular of plankton is plankter - he only had one. My poor Greek obviously signalled the relationship was doomed ...

Your Greek may well have been in a rudimentary state of chassis at the time, but it certainly wasn't demonstrated to be so from this eejit's put-down (however much it "pained" him to deliver it), a suppression of a particular type the temptation to deliver being apparently beyond the powers of those even less acquainted with Greek than you were to resist. While a taxonomist might well have concurred with his identification of his pet as a "plankter" (singular), the deduction that this is therefore the singular of "plankton" owes less to Greek than it does to a failure to have practiced enumeration beyond differentiating between one and several, and then plucking any old term out of the air to replace "one" and "several" with respect to any single taxonomic species and the words to henceforth apply to these, and then arbitrarily choosing the Greek language (imprecisely) as a source.

One finds this with arbitrarily selected eponyms for "new" things all the time, and the inclination to incorrectly use Greek and/or Latin terms grows in direct correlation to how "high brow" the appellator wishes the "thing" to be regarded, and worse, this imprecise vocabulary then simply being popularised through eager use by those whose primary wish is that this "high brow" quality should accordingly be conferred on them also.

"Plankton" - which, when first recordedly used in 1889, correctly employed the Greek neuter of "plazesthai" (to wander astray, to roam aimlessly), was in fact one of the very rare occasions when a botanist/scientist, charged with the ego-inflationary prospect of assigning a brand new name to a brand new discovery, actually went to the trouble of applying semantic exactitude to the operation (he was a German, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised by this). His dilemma was that as yet the taxonomic nature and actual range of special deviation had not been identified, merely the presence, amount, and some understanding of the chemical make-up of the organism. All that was really understood (somewhat falsely as it turned out) was that these organisms existed in their many billions and appeared to "wander aimlessly" through the depths with no apparent means of propulsion and no apparent capacity to employ one if they'd had it. Knowing that someone was bound to come along later and achieve a better understanding of the organism, but still wanting to be first to give it a name that would stick, the scientist therefore consulted Greek grammar for as non-descript a noun that could be extrapolated from the "plazesthai" verbal root but which would not translate simply into "wanderer" (which implies some free will and intent on the part of that which is wandering). Having therefore shunned "planómenos", or even "periplanomenos" (that which wanders, or that which wanders a lot - the second still being a modern Greek term for "tramp") he dug deeper into Homeric Greek grammar and found the marvellous "-kton" suffix which, when applied to a verbal stem to create a noun, added a quality of uncertainty to that noun, denoting in fact something that skirted the boundaries of knowable and which therefore suited his particular dilemma completely. Even better, he found that "plankton" ("that which is said might possibly wander") didn't even need invention, it had been used to describe Helios himself, as well as many other observable cosmic phenomena, in the dim and distant past. And so we inherited the term as a taxonomic descriptor - both singular and plural - of this particular organism which, at the time of discovery, was almost certainly in fact several different distinct organisms yet to be ascertained and, as was envisaged by Viktor Hensen, almost certainly going to end up being the descriptor for an entire classification within taxonomic rules, especially phenetically (and he was right).

In 1935, and now in the hands of an American, a new challenge arose. Study of plankton had advanced to a point where it had it been established that there was a predominant strain within the special deviation, and it was this that was most normally identified as being "plankton", the others having to settle for crudely constructed variations (proto-plankton, alba-plankton, and other semantically excruciating combinations that even make "television" look good as a word). Now at the point where individuals from the species were being selected and studied in microscopic isolation, this (anonymous) destroyer of semantic worlds operating in the backwoods of Ohio, decided he needed a name for just such an individual (though "plankton" was adequate in fact - especially when prefaced with an "a"). Not for him however the arduous and time consuming trawl through grammar, vocabulary and syntax to isolate a semantically exact eponym as unique as that which it would now describe. Instead, using Mirriam-Webster or some such pretence of a dictionary to find the etymology of "plankton", he (or the dictionary) got no further than "wander" with no reference whatsoever to the epistemological indeterminacy of the Homeric construct so beautifully coined back in the 19th century. Without even taking five minutes of basic research to discover that -kton had never been a plural, he decided for no reason known to any Greek, living, dead or Homeric, that -kter would then suffice as a singular, no doubt in his semantically enfeebled mind a "just dandy" coinage - even though in fact it was an atrociously bad "koineage".

Fast forward to the vicinity of the Cherwell some decades later and what do we find? A slave to American illiteracy establishing a false superiority through an equally false assumption that they "knew" Greek based on a badly deduced eponym that was, in effect, unforgivable given that the clue to avoiding making the semantically disastrous mistake had been intelligently (and beautifully) made an intrinsic part of the word itself that had been chosen to describe the species in the first place. He certainly did not know enough Greek to imply that he knew more than the next person (I would wager he in fact knew less, having so singularly failed to recognise the false singularity of his "pet"). He probably knew enough to have pursued a later career in taxonomy. Though given his linguistic and personality limitations he in fact might well have been wiser to pursue a career that employed something of what he had learnt (badly) but which could be pursued alone with less opportunity therefore of offending others on a day-to-day basis through verbal expression of a misplaced sense of superiority using semantically stupid terms.

Taxidermy, maybe? (which I hope was also along the lines of what you advised him to do - though perhaps using more robust Anglo-Saxon roots to your expression?).

nordmann, who am I to check all the narration of someone who in the past has never failed to write the right right...
But you know me...is it a bad or a good thing to be sceptical? (the "normal" sceptical, not the philosophical one)
And yes from my research I can follow it:
https://www.yourdictionary.com/plankton
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%BA%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82
https://www.youdict.com/etym/s/plankton
But what is the difference between your mentioned "plazesthai" 
and  "πλάζω" "Derived from πλάζω (plázō, “I turn aside, wander”).
found also in the links?
That of the "Ohio" one was easy...
So nothing found to be sceptical about...and btw, as I know you I hadn't expected otherwise from you...
PS: and now I see: plazo first person indicatif from the infinitif plazesthai?

Kind regards, Paul.

GG - so just which shrew are you planning to bury in a Bar snack? 

And MM, Ginny pies do sound awfullygood for this bar.... sloe cooked, I imagine. Anything you could make with port? -Please do not call them Port A Loos if they are made with potato.... aloo being a Hindi word for pommes de terre. See - I can  also do languages! The Greeks never had a word for potato - unless a word was dedicated 'To the Unknown Vegetable,' as they liked to hedge their bets about several things - including deities 
On which heady note I shall call it a day - or night even...… such is our health Service these days I have to see the Dr at 8am. For this I shall make an effort to ruin his day also. Just when IS 8am?  of course the poor chap may be just finishing up yesterday's list so I'd better not.

To help avoid this humble drinking hole acquiring the dreaded reputation of being a gastro-pub (with already an unfortunate surfeit of waffles on the menu), and since we've decided to highlight the vast regional diversity of our regular patrons' humble origins, then may I direct your attention to the sign that now hangs above our entrance, kindly loaned to us by a sister hostelry in Swords, Co Dublin:



That should get a few pandas in, I reckon. If not a few Miss Church followers ...

Waffle Land Person wrote:

But what is the difference between your mentioned "plazesthai"
and "πλάζω" "Derived from πλάζω (plázō, “I turn aside, wander”).
found also in the links?

Don't know, sir. Looks pretty similar to me. But let us turn back to happier topics such as the gross waffle output of Walloon in the inter-war years (otherwise known as all Belgian history), after all we could find ourselves forced to wander endlessly with no destination in sight through ancient Greek grammar before we ever found the freedom to voluntarily roam around with several destinations in sight in modern Greek.

The things that the grand Merriam-Webster-Wikipedia Alliance don't tell us, eh?

Actually Pig Nipple Scratchings is a recipe listed in the late Roman cookbook of Apicius, 'De Re Coquinaria': "Sumen elixas, de cannis surclas, sale adspargis et in furnum mittis uel in craticulam. subassas. teres piper, ligusticum, liquamen, mero et passo, amulo obligas et sumen perfundis." (Sow's udder or belly with the paps on it is prepared in this manner: the belly boil, tie it together with reeds, sprinkle with salt and place it in the oven, or, start roasting on a gridiron. Crush pepper, lovage, with liquamen [fermented fish sauce], pure wine, adding sweet raisin wine to taste, thicken [the sauce, with flour/breadcumbs] and pour over the roasted meat).

And then of course there's also,



"get 'em while they're hot; they're  lovely":

Gwyneth Paltrow is worried we are all in danger of getting too fat. According to reports in the popular press, in advice offered to the avid consumers of the health and lifestye tips offered on her website, Ms Paltrow urges us all to strive to reach (and maintain) our "leanest liveable weight" -  a confusing expression which I suppose means to be as skinny as possible without being actually dead.

But the health professionals disagree with her!  Hurrah! Cambridge University scientist, Dr Giles Yeo, slams the Paltrow way as 'irresponsible' advice, and says that her remarks about the joy of life at the "low end of the weight charts" are indeed confusing, so we can safely ignore that tiresome Paltrow woman! But what, you may ask, has this to do with Priscilla's request for foods sourced from posters' local areas for the new bar menu? Well, Dr Yeo's comments that being lean and mean is not necessarily a healthy goal in life suggests that I can now offer foods from around here (Devon). No  "Speak Your Weight" machines in the loos here at Res His, Gwynnie, to make our lives a misery, so we can tuck in without guilt! For all our hungry snackers who are a bit worried lest their low density lipoprotein levels are far too low for maximum health, you can here sample some typical West Country calorie-and-cholesterol-boosting delights: hog's pudding, lardy cake (enriched with extra, extra-enriched lard), proper Devon meaty pasties (none of that Cornish vegan muck) - all smothered, of course, in clotted cream, not to mention the plate of scones with jam and - er - clotted cream. A Hockings ice-cream (made with butter and yes, you've guessed it, the ubiquitous clotted cream) with more clotted cream on top is suggested for afters. If you prefer something a bit richer, you can ask for double clotted cream - looks and tastes like pure butter! Those statins don't stand a chance!

Wash it all down with pints of rough cider or some famous Bucky Tonic wine (an additional health boost on tap here) -  and the management guarantee all our patrons will be as sick as dogs in no time - so no need to fret about all those pesky calories!

MM - being dislecksik myself I harbour no horror that you may get it wrong...… on the other hand are you all right? A large stoneware jar labelled Pickled Egg-heads has been placed on the bar. Now this may be of any origin (Devon, Norway, France and seasonal trains in England - as we do have clever members who get pickled - identify the solution to get the solution.  I am not looking inside the jar. Sorry - had to see two Drs today and have to watch my diet - well I  have watched it  and nothing is going on there. I'd rather watch a film if that is allowed..... so am a bit hazed about what to do next.

I never corrected my cooks - one insisted on calling the pasties Plastic Cornies…. which we still do here and actually he got it bang on right...… we get Gangster ones here - or some such name. They don't  do hold ups, either.

The other cook's notes were often  handwritten suggested menus - of which I recall the ones about spicy hot curries.
We could have either - 'Find a loo curry' or 'Mad arse' curry. I was forbidden to label them as such on the table but  how right they were. Which would Res Hist prefer I bet I could make either jolly well.

Sorry, but here's a bit of history ! Just found this when I was looking for a picture of a bottle of Scrumpy. It's about "Devonshire colic".

Cider Poisoning


IN 1724, THE ENGLISH DOCTOR John Huxham encountered a swath of patients suffering from stomach pain, cold sweats, and copious vomiting of blood-tinged, “exceeding Green bile,” often followed by painful paralysis. He immediately identified it as an outbreak of Devonshire colic, a disease that no longer exists but once proliferated in the English county of Devon.

The colic was unusual in that doctors knew what caused it nearly from the start. In the first written record of the disease, a doctor named William Musgrave wrote in 1703 that the cause was “rough and acid cyder, drunk in too great quantities.” Devonshire, after all, remains to this day a prime apple-growing and cider-making area.

The cider-drinking was the problem, but not the actual cider. You have to read the article to find out more - unless you already know.

We appear to have a great selection t offer not just our posters but possibly to the whole world. I suggest we start up a franchise, To do this we may need to pull some gastric gut strings - I lived in the East for a very long time and know how these things are done......
I suggest we make up hampers of our fare - with more if any.... to send to world

eg Mr Boris may like a box of the nipples (assorted)…. and what else? My road-kill French toast might appeal.

Kindly come up with some people and suggestions...… and then let's make some franchise moneu before the world ends.

nordmann..."of Walloon in the inter-war years"...à la vôtre... ...Paul...

The Caterer wrote:

I lived in the East for a very long time and know how these things are done......

We'll have none of that around here, thank you, and please put that copy of the Tantric Times back in its brown paper bag, ma'am! Our hampers will be as pure as the driven snow. In fact I have a suspicion that pure hampering is something we may even excel at.

My own contribution will be modest, and suitably ethnic - Moggerly-na-Muck, a Cork delicacy from olden days that I hope nobody here or on the receiving end of the hamper is inclined to translate before they eat it:



As this is still a pub (I have the toilet graffiti to prove it), I recommend the above to be washed down with a cold Murphy Irish Stout, once a refreshing beverage from the same city as the dish above but now a derogatory though accurate family-specific commentary on current Irish demographics and general health standards.