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 Saluting the flag

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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: Saluting the flag   Saluting the flag - Page 5 EmptyWed 06 Nov 2019, 07:27

@PaulRyckier wrote:
And I have the impression, as I see it, that the UK will have its exit with a deal before the Belgians have a federal government.

Ah but the 'deal' that everyone is currently haggling about is only the initial Withdrawal Agreement covering what happens immediately on the day the UK finally leaves. Negociating the real deals and managing the fallout will only start then and will go on for many years, possibly decades. While there already seems to be a lot of 'brexit fatigue' settling in, I think all those demanding "just get it done" (whatever 'it' exactly is) are going to be in for a very nasty shock as 'it' continues to drag on, dominating politics and creating turmoil in everyones lives. But Pandora's box has been opened: there's no way back now.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: Saluting the flag   Saluting the flag - Page 5 EmptyWed 06 Nov 2019, 07:42

Yep - absolutely - but people seem to be cottoning on to that. Boris and the Gang may be in for a very nasty shock too. Just wish Jo Swinson didn't come across as an enthusiastic Girl Guide.

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Meles meles
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Meles meles

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PostSubject: Re: Saluting the flag   Saluting the flag - Page 5 EmptyWed 06 Nov 2019, 08:40

An interesting opinion piece by Raphael Behr in today's Guardian The monstrous ugly tangle of Brexit will be ignored in this ‘Brexit election’ also refers to Brexit, and specifically its role in the upcoming general election, in mythological terms:

"... Brexit is like the mythical Gorgon that turns to stone all who meet its gaze. It must instead be stalked indirectly, using the monster’s reflection in their polished shield.

That is why the election will be only obliquely about Brexit. It will not feature rational evaluation of Britain’s relationship with the rest of Europe. These campaigns never do. The referendum drove big red and blue buses down every social fault line in the country without arriving at a functional definition of Brexit. The 2017 election was more animated by fox-hunting and dementia care than customs unions and regulatory alignment. Even when politics appears to be about Brexit, it conspires to be about something else: jostling for position in a Tory leadership race; pro-remain guerrilla manoeuvres in the remote hills of Commons procedure.

With parliament dissolved, anything relating to the substance of negotiation in Brussels will fall off the agenda because it is a boring subject for most voters and always has been. Meanwhile, neither of the two candidates to be prime minister is going to offer an honest appraisal of why leaving has been so difficult and why it brings no material benefit to the country.

Elections used to bring us solutions. The 2019 general election won’t.

There will be ample talk of something called Brexit, but that word will continue to be a proxy for grievances only tangentially connected to EU membership. Or it will be a tint on the lens through which other issues – the NHS, crime, education – will be projected. If British politics was capable of sustaining a focus on the banal reality of continental integration it would have happened by now. And of all the climates in which to cultivate measured debate on the subject, a frenzied, polarised election campaign is the least hospitable. We will get to the end of it and, whatever the result, the monstrous tangle of ugly Brexit choices will still be there. The Gorgon will not be slain."


As he says, this general election is all about Brexit but neither of the main players dare mention it too explicitly as the politics of aborting Brexit are as gruesome as the economics of going through with it. There is no good outcome now, only different routes to realising that it was a stupid idea in the first place.
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PaulRyckier
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PostSubject: Re: Saluting the flag   Saluting the flag - Page 5 EmptyWed 06 Nov 2019, 21:33

@Meles meles wrote:
While there already seems to be a lot of 'brexit fatigue' settling in, I think all those demanding "just get it done" (whatever 'it' exactly is) are going to be in for a very nasty shock as 'it' continues to drag on, dominating politics and creating turmoil in everyones lives. But Pandora's box has been opened: there's no way back now.

Yes MM, but as you say: There is no way back now. In my opinion, the most important now is that there is a deal. And how nasty the consequences may be, it will, again in my opinion, much less nasty than a no deal with two blocks of nearly equivalent weight, who are figthing perhaps each other even to a point of civil disorder. I read today in the newspapers overhere about some 6? women (with their photos), who didn't want to participate in the elections for fear of the turmoil?

I hadn't read your second reply with the Guardian article this morning, as I only lurked in a hurry to the board, and had prepared in mind only the former paragraph.
But as I understand the article and your comments, correct me if I am wrong, the elections will not bring anything new and they will go the difficult way of the deal, that is not that different from Theresa May's deal? But in Theresa May's time the DUP was "incourtonable" (unescapable?).

Overhere about the forming of the Belgian government things are perhaps worser, as there is no sight of a compromise between the right wing Flemish region and the left wing Francophone Brussels/Walloon regions., perhaps because in the Flemish region they are afraid of the far right and in the Francophone regions they are afraid of the far left. If there is no deal, there will be new elections and in my humble opinion that will solve nothing, even a smaller possibility for a compromise, while the extremes will gain again and the left-right differences will grow to such a degree that no compromise is possible anymore.

Kind regards, Paul.
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LadyinRetirement
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PostSubject: Re: Saluting the flag   Saluting the flag - Page 5 EmptyTue 12 Nov 2019, 09:34

Yesterday I attended a talk given by a ranger from Forestry England about forestry on Cannock Chase (which is situated in my home county).  He mentioned that Forestry England is part of what used to be the Forestry Commission.  What the heck has that to do with "Salute the Flag" you may ask.  Well, I can't remember exactly but he mentioned that the Welsh arm of what used to be The Forestry Commission was in a complicated state of affairs because of matters concerning the EU.  I didn't have time or opportunity to ask him about that but I wondered whether the Welsh successor entity to The Forestry Commission has taken money from the EU in the form of grants etc.  People who voted Leave have tended to think along the lines of the UK paying an inordinate amount of money into the EU but I o wonder where we stand on awards that have been made to UK causes from the EU.  Will they have to be repaid?  I might send an email to the local branch of Forestry England asking about this matter.

I know that Forestry England was mentioned in the "Who Owns England...who owns my parking space" thread (going from memory so sorry if I have slightly paraphrased) but I decided to put my post here because it related to the EU.
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