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ComicMonster
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ComicMonster

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PostSubject: ecles names   ecles names EmptyThu 10 Nov 2022, 16:11

Hello! It's been yonks! Isn't it? Glad to talk to you  ecles names 1f604 
I am translating a gorgeous good book of the millenia from 300 to 1300, or from emperor Constantine to popular crusades. There's a map with a tag I don´t understand: it says "ecles names". I don't see what's that "ecles"; I first thought it may be a short form for "ecclesiastical", but just two lines ahead I read: "British monasteries known by c. 560", so I am not sure about my guess… Searching the net doesn't give anything…

Sorry, I didn't mention the map is of Post-Roman Christianity in Britain.

The system doesn't allow me to insert an image of the problematic stuff, alas!

I really thank you, because all my "investigations" have been unsuccessful…

See you!

CM
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LadyinRetirement
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LadyinRetirement

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PostSubject: Re: ecles names   ecles names EmptyThu 10 Nov 2022, 20:55

CM, I found this in a search - it seems to be a Scots online site https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/published-gazetteers-and-atlases/atlas-scottish-history-1707/atlas-scottish-history-1707/352 and here is the first paragraph

"The church • -f + • Early Christianity The distinctive memorial stones ofGalloway and the Borders, many may be documented by cemeteries containing graves without gravewith inscriptions and clearly akin to those of Wales, show that from goods, oriented east-west, the bodies extended and enclosed in ro.ugh the fifth century an episcopally organised church spread through stone coffins. One such cemetery is associated with a memorial stone southern Scotland, though doubtless much disrupted by Anglian (Kirkl iston south of Abercorn), but in general the dates of burials are settlements from the sixth century, a disruption which may explain inferred not proved. The extension of Christianity from Lothian to why the memorial stones (and Ecles names) have an upland Fife which the distribution suggests agrees with one scrap of literary distribution, the early Anglian settlement being stronger on the coast evidence: a visit by Cuthbert from Northumbria to the Picts in Fife. and in the Tweed Valley. Nonetheless when the Angles became Other sculpture of early date, including, some of Anglian Christian after 633 they supported monasteries at Coldingham and character, is difficult to date, but is generally later than the British Melrose and a see at Abercorn, whose Celtic names suggest that they memorial stones. Such other sculpture is indicated on the map only took over British religious establishments there. The low Latin word for the southern area (including Dunbartonshire). The equivalent for a church, Eclesia, entered British as Ecles and also entered northern sculpture, and the main index of Pictish Christianity must Pictish. It has left a scatter of place-names which suggest British be the Class nsymbol stones with their elaborate relief crosses (see influence on early Christianity in southern Pictland. Pictish Monuments). There is little evidence to support Bede's claim The spread ofChristianity in the period of Anglian expansion that St Columba converted the northern Picts, and early Columban / J~"M"';,~~;Ii:;:::;;~~f '"Y) ''""'' "" "~d Wheen (Eglishmaquhen), ~_ Agilsmochen), Inglismaldie . \ "'If . Egilyeul Langley Park (Eglisjohn) ~....Ecclesgreig ~(EgleSglrg) Egglespe~e~ ) ~ ~_ Eglismonichto Clashbenny (Ecclesdovenavin, • Ecglisbanyn) -'\ . ~Exmagirdle -,-Eglesnamin ~ • ~ • ·Eglismart;~~~smund ~~"'-. Gleneagles ~.......-'"\. / St Nimans . Ec;Jesmahne (Eccles) ~ • _......J _ ,I ..~Inchmartln (E lismarten) Falklrk (Egglesbrech) • e6. Abercorn -+ Ecclesmachin or -f + • Coludesburh (Coldingham) Glasgow~nChmaChan --·E I .. -ag escalrme Eaglesham • • + _Carluke (Englismalessok) Luel (Carlisle) Episcopal seat Monastery Early British sculpture Long-cist cemetery kms o 25 50 75 100 , ,, , , , , Sculpture of early date (probably 7-9th centuries) I o 10 20 30 40 50 60 Place-names in ec/es miles Early Christianity: Pictish and Anglian AAMD 330"


The sentence "The equivalent for a church, Eclesia, entered British as Ecles and also entered northern sculpture, and the main index of Pictish Christianity must Pictish." would seem to be of interest and would appear to indicate that an 'ecles' was an old British word for a church.  I know that 'eglwys' is the Welsh word for church.


There seems to be something about 'ecles names' here https://www.academia.edu/34831583/Review_of_E._Quintons_Church_in_English_Place-names_Onomastica_Canadiana._December_2010_Volume_92_2_._P._49-59

and here https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/inr.2012.0036    extract ....."*ecles names for Christian settlements, and even some of the *nemed names which he now argues are not necessarily evidence of pre-Christian ritual sites, can be reasonably ascribed to the early medieval period. Such a comprehensive process of renaming the landscape in this period denotes a fundamental transformation in how it was inhabited, which must be accounted for in any study of the changes in pre-Christian religious beliefs."


I hope this helps point you in the right direction and hopefully someone with a more specialised knowledge will be able to assist in a more detailed manner.


Last edited by LadyinRetirement on Fri 11 Nov 2022, 08:31; edited 1 time in total
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ComicMonster
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PostSubject: Re: ecles names   ecles names EmptyFri 11 Nov 2022, 07:13

Hello LadyinRetirement, hope you are happy and well  ecles names 1f603 
That explains it all! This is perfect, really good information. I would never, ever, have been able to find it by myself, so I am truly grateful for this. I have explained it in a brief footnote, so the reader will also be happy to know what that ecles is all about —except if she or he, being a scholar, already does (and that is another reason for me to feel now in the safe side, you know…).

Take care!

CM
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LadyinRetirement
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LadyinRetirement

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PostSubject: Re: ecles names   ecles names EmptyTue 15 Nov 2022, 08:28

Glad I could be of some assistance even in a small way, Comic Monster.
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ComicMonster
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PostSubject: Re: ecles names   ecles names EmptyTue 15 Nov 2022, 08:32

Not small at all —really! Smile It's simply vital help…

Best regards.
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