Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: History of religious head coverings Sun 26 Jul 2020, 11:59
Sparked by Vizzer's "balaclava" I did a quick search for types of head coverings... I first started with a title concerning all head coverings, but I see now that it is too vast a subject and so decided to limit to religious head coverings. And it can be that even that is a too extensive story to cover...
Last edited by PaulRyckier on Tue 28 Jul 2020, 17:50; edited 2 times in total
Meles meles Censura
Posts : 5082 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : Pyrénées-Orientales, France
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Mon 27 Jul 2020, 11:31
On the 'Masks' thread you posted a picture of a mail 'balaclava':
However strictly that is what's called a mail coif (coif de maille), despite it actually more closely resembling what was then generally known as a chaperon. The ordinary coif (the word just means a hair-cover, so similar in etymological origin to a modern hair-dresser still being called a coiffeuse), was originally just a very simple cap, typically made in linen and usually tied under the chin with ribbons or strings. It was worn by both men and women from about the 10th century, and though it went out of fashion for men around the 14th century (about the same time the mail version was abandoned as military wear) the coif continued in common use for women well into the 17th century, albeit sometimes covered by a second, more elaborate hat/hood.
The chaperon was a one-piece combined shoulder-cape and hood (like your mail version) but usually with a long pointed end (the length getting fashionably longer and longer over time) which could be wound around the head or neck, draped artistically over the shoulder, or when very long indeed, ornately knotted and piled on top (which also served to prevent one tripping over it). The chaperon could be worn in two different ways: as the original hooded shoulder cape with the hood's tail (called the tippet, liripipe or cornette) hanging down the back or draped over the shoulder ... or alternatively with the top of the head put into the face-hole (the visagière) and the shoulder cape bit (known as the patte, goulée, guleron, or sometimes the cockscomb if it was very fancily cut) flamboyantly arranged at the side or on top. When worn in this latter manner a firm doughnut of rolled fabric (called the rondel, burlet or bourrelet) was often incorporated around what had originally been the face-hole but was now around the head, to allow the whole construction to sit comfortably and securely like a hat. The chaperon was especially fashionable in mid-15th century Burgundy but thereafter it gradually fell out of fashion and by the end of the century had returned to its original utilitarian form as a simple hooded shoulder cape and with a sensibly short tail to the hood.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Tue 28 Jul 2020, 17:48
MM, thank you very much for this interesting extension about head covering. I read it extensivley and learned from it.
As I have now changed the title of "head covering" to "religious head covering" it is now here perhaps an aside, but it is still about head covering in a general sense and an interesting subject. Thank you again.
Kind regards from Paul.
Meles meles Censura
Posts : 5082 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : Pyrénées-Orientales, France
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Tue 28 Jul 2020, 18:37
Ah ha ... so this thread is now specifically about religious head-coverings. Sorry to have misunderstood and so to have diverted away from your original premise.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Wed 29 Jul 2020, 20:19
I thought to ask Priscilla about the "dastar" it seems to be a Sikh head covering...and in what it differed from the other Indian "pagri"...
It came in my mind again, while I regularly see I suppose a Sikh in Bruges and surroundings. I think it is always the same Sikh I see, but now not sure anymore, perhaps while the colour of the "turban" as perhaps to be the same and the shape and form also? And the physiognomy of the visible face can perhaps with the beard and the skin colour very similar for different persons...
I started some research, but what a difficult material...I guess for Priscilla it will be also a big pile of differences, as you seem to have several types of "turbans" (pagri) and also Muslim ones...
And a Sikh one:
And about the difference of the Sikh one and the other "pagri"
And the "turban" seems to have a lot to do with the "honour" of the man and the loss of it...
I wonder if Priscilla can enlighten something...as for instance: is this "turban" worn in everyday life of the common man?
Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Thu 30 Jul 2020, 20:29
Take now the "catholic biretta" ("beret" from "green berets?)
In my time (the "Fifties") the priests overhere had it all on their head (together with a "soutane" (cassock), not on their head). How times could change that quickly...
The biretta may be used by all ranks of the Latin clergy cardinals and other bishops to priests, deacons, and even seminarians (who are not clergy, since they are not ordained). Those worn by cardinals are scarlet red and made of silk. After the Second Vatican Council the ceremony of giving the galero to cardinals was replaced with giving the biretta. The biretta of a bishop is amaranth in color, while those worn by priests, deacons, and seminarians are black. The pope does not make use of the biretta. The TridentineRoman Missal rubrics on low Mass required the priest to wear the biretta while proceeding to the altar, to hand it to the server on arrival and to resume it when leaving.[2] At solemn Mass the sacred ministers wore it also when seated.[3]
Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Thu 30 Jul 2020, 21:52
By the search for the biretta I came on this interesting comparison between the head coverings related to religion:
See under: Yarmulke, mitre or veil: religious head coverings around the globe
And to be sure that I was not on a "n'importe quoi" (they translate "whatever") unknown or "special" site, as always I checked the about us: https://en.qantara.de/page/about-us
The Arabic word "qantara" means "bridge". The project Qantara.de is run by Deutsche Welle and involves the Goethe-Institut and the Institut für Auslandsbeziehungen (Institute for Foreign Cultural Relations) as members of the project advisory committee. The project seeks to promote dialogue with the Islamic world and is funded by the German Foreign Office. Deutsche Welle (DW) is Germany’s international broadcaster. DW conveys Germany as a nation rooted in European culture and as a liberal, democratic state based on the rule of law. DW is known for its in-depth, reliable news and information and promotes exchange and understanding between the world’s cultures and people.
Deutsche Welle and the Goethe Institut are honest sources, although perhaps a bit German culture and language biased ...but who can blame them? ...after all they are...
Paul.
LadyinRetirement Censura
Posts : 3305 Join date : 2013-09-16 Location : North-West Midlands, England
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Fri 31 Jul 2020, 13:59
I don't have a brand up-to-date picture of a nun's wimple but here is actress Siobahn McSweeney as Sr Michael from the comedy Derry Girls which is set in Derry around the time of the Good Friday agreement.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Fri 31 Jul 2020, 16:37
LiR, I just wanted to discuss today the difficult question about wearing religious head covering just as a cultural habit, an expression of inner faith or perhaps just to challenge the outer community to show that you have another belief and that that community has to accept you despite they commonly have another for instance non religious affiliation. As the French state with its separation of Church and State https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/separation-church-and-state-france-1905
And the question is made again and again as the example in a retirement home in France that I mentioned yesterday. https://en.qantara.de/content/french-nun-refused-place-in-retirement-home-due-to-veil In my humble opinion in this case the nun wearing her head covering as she was used, would never be in normal circumstances a difficulty in the retirement home. And I guess she didn't challenge the community to point to her religion...and yes one forget for the management, you never know, the retired laic community could take offence at her religious appearance...one has not to underestimate those seculars too...many times they are worser than their religious counterparts...but on the other side some religious communities can use that individual case to challenge and break open some established regulations...as I already said a difficult question...
As such, LiR, your example fits perhaps to an example how it all can be, when all these strong sectarian attitudes are taken with a pince of salt... A nephew of my father was married to a lady from Belfast and he lived a time in Belfast during the Troubles time. She told me, that one could in Belfast hardly see the stuff pictured in the journal, except the barricades controlled by the army and an everyday nuissance to the inhabitants...she said it were only the hard dies from both sides, who ruined the day to day climate...
BTW: Father Brown I don't watch, because for me it is a bit boring. "Silent Witness" I like, and "Our Girl" isn't also bad... I liked also the "Last Post" series and I see now that the second series is canceled. It is a pity... http://britishperioddramas.com/news/the-last-post-season-2-bbc-cancelled/
Is it because they in the series have stepped on some sensible political toes?
Kind regards, Paul.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Sun 02 Aug 2020, 22:04
I started today with the "veil". I knew that it was quite an extended subject, but hadn't expected that much...
On a French history site I came in a discussion about a revival in France of Catholicism among youngsters...and I didn't believe it, but searching on the internet...indeed...but again it is a question how widespread it all is... Latin mass...veil and all...
Posts : 3305 Join date : 2013-09-16 Location : North-West Midlands, England
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Mon 03 Aug 2020, 22:24
Years ago the custom was for women and girls to wear hats to church, Catholic churches anyway. Nowadays it isn't mandatory. I quite often wear a shawl or scarf - not that that is in a religious context.
LadyinRetirement Censura
Posts : 3305 Join date : 2013-09-16 Location : North-West Midlands, England
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Tue 04 Aug 2020, 09:29
If women want to cover their heads going to church I don't have a problem with that. Extremism with anything can be problematic and "fundamental" followers of any faith, whether a sect of Christianity or a different religion can take their ideas too far. Some of the folk who 'buy into' weird notions such as the earth being flat seem to belong to fundamental branches of Christianity. Some hold an opinion that women should not wear styles of clothing suited to men and vice versa but it would seem they don't know that historically it was not unknown for baby/toddler boys to wear dresses (well in those days Mums couldn't throw a baby grow in the washing machine to clean it). I'm an ignoramus when it comes to what sorts of attire were worn in various parts of the Indian subcontinent but the salwar kameez is worn by ladies as everyday wear I believe in some areas and there is one way of folding the sari (so an Indian person told me) so that it goes between the legs and looks like pants.
PaulRyckier Censura
Posts : 4902 Join date : 2012-01-01 Location : Belgium
Subject: Re: History of religious head coverings Tue 04 Aug 2020, 22:27
Quote :
LadyinRetirementIf women want to cover their heads going to church I don't have a problem with that. Extremism with anything can be problematic and "fundamental" followers of any faith, whether a sect of Christianity or a different religion can take their ideas too far. Some of the folk who 'buy into' weird notions such as the earth being flat seem to belong to fundamental branches of Christianity. Some hold an opinion that women should not wear styles of clothing suited to men and vice versa but it would seem they don't know that historically it was not unknown for baby/toddler boys to wear dresses (well in those days Mums couldn't throw a baby grow in the washing machine to clean it). I'm an ignoramus when it comes to what sorts of attire were worn in various parts of the Indian subcontinent but the salwar kameez is worn by ladies as everyday wear I believe in some areas and there is one way of folding the sari (so an Indian person told me) so that it goes between the legs and looks like pants.
LiR, excuses the whole day very busy...
And I got nearly berserk seeking for an image of Belgian women in the Fifties...I am grown up with these ladies and see still in the image of the street of that time those women with a coton square scarf on their head and knotted under their chin (kin)... But no not one single image...I thought first that with google I inserted the wrong term (we say "sjerp" or "sjarpe" (from the French "écharpe") and I even think that the English "scarf" comes also from "écharpe"...but no with all kind of combinations of words, no result or only the "headscarf" from Muslim women. In the church in that time the women sat at the left side and the men at the right side...I was time and time again a witness of that in the Fifties... And nearly all the women had a scarf as detailed above, some had a women hat and only a few dissidents had nothing at all on their head...but nothing to find on the internet, only muslim headscarfs...even with "vintage" or "jaren vijftig" (Fifties) At the end I found this:
Only the method of wearing and knotting is similar with the Belgian women scarf of the Fifties...
I have a vague rememberance that Turkish immigrant women of the coal mines wore it the same way as the Belgian women. And the Turkish men had a
Have you in England nothing known similar? I am nearly sure that it was in the North of France in that time similar to ours...
To be honest in the street not all women had a headscarf as discribed above, only in winter when it was cold or rainy...in summer they had mostly no scarf...