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ComicMonster Consulatus
Posts : 197 Join date : 2017-10-24
| Subject: Essex to Privy Council Mon 26 Apr 2021, 12:20 | |
| Hello! There's a footnote which poses me a problem of comprehension. To understand properly what puzzles me in the footnote, you will probably want some context. In the main text, the author says the following: - Quote :
- Walter Devereux (1541–76), the first Earl of Essex, who unsuccessfully attempted to plant an English colony in Ulster in 1573, envisaged Ireland as England’s Indies, and he predicted that the English government would soon be forced to restrict emigration to Ireland just as the Spanish imposed restraints “for going to the Indies.” [Theodore W. Allen]
Then comes the note whose meaning I can't decide: - Quote :
- Canny, Elizabethan Conquest of Ireland, pp. 133–4, citing Essex to Privy Council, Additional Manuscripts 48015, fols 305–14
I wonder if in English usage one may refer to "Essex" as a designative name for its Earl; in that case, the translation will say something like that: "as quoted from Essex's appearance before the Privy Council of the Kingdom…". On the other hand, it may be (that's guesswork) a sort of an official communication that the authorities of Essex addressed to the Privy Council (?) —which will command a completely different rendering. I am sorry to ask, but I really lack the cultural-historical knowledge needed to know what the sentence is actually saying… Thanks once again for your help. CM |
| | | Temperance Virgo Vestalis Maxima
Posts : 6895 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Essex to Privy Council Mon 26 Apr 2021, 12:50 | |
| The ruling elite of England still call one another by the bit of England their ancestors were in charge of (even if in charge only temporarily until they were beheaded, as was Walter's unfortunate and vainglorious son, Robert). So "Norfolk", "Suffolk", "Essex" in Tudor times could refer to the man or the county! Here it would refer to the actual person - the Earl of Essex. Rule still applies. In Season 1 of The Crown, it was confusing for some people to hear a courtier comment (referring to outrageous suggestion that the Duke of Edinburgh should organise his young wife's coronation): "But Norfolk is always in charge of the Coronation!" He meant the man, the Duke of Norfolk, not Norfolk County Council!
At school, HRH Prince Charles was referred to as "Wales" - I think it was even embroidered on his uniform Cash's name tags* - rather nice being called after a whole country - posher than a mere county! I think Prince William of Wales was called "Wales", too. Not sure about Prince Harry. They call him other things now besides Prince Henry of Wales, Duke of Sussex - usually "Netflix" or "Disney" or "Hazard" - as in "Duke of"...
PS * If you are a posh kid in England you have to have Cash's name tags sewn into your school togs - or certainly you used to.
Last edited by Temperance on Mon 26 Apr 2021, 14:55; edited 1 time in total |
| | | Meles meles Censura
Posts : 5119 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : Pyrénées-Orientales, France
| Subject: Re: Essex to Privy Council Mon 26 Apr 2021, 12:56 | |
| Crossed posts, but further to what Temp says, I take the footnote to mean that Canny's book 'Elizabethan Conquest of Ireland', on pages 133-4, either states what the Earl of Essex actually said or wrote to the Privy Council, or at least gives a specific reference to back up what Canny says the Earl said - hence the reference: "Additional Manuscripts 48015, fols [folios] 305–14". To cite a source means to document it in sufficient detail that a reader will be able to find that source and specific quotation .
Last edited by Meles meles on Mon 26 Apr 2021, 13:19; edited 3 times in total |
| | | Temperance Virgo Vestalis Maxima
Posts : 6895 Join date : 2011-12-30 Location : UK
| Subject: Re: Essex to Privy Council Mon 26 Apr 2021, 13:04 | |
| Yes, it will be what Essex actually said or wrote to the Privy Council, MM is absolutely right - sorry, I didn't make that clear. Just got carried away with thinking I'd like to be Temperance of Devon. |
| | | ComicMonster Consulatus
Posts : 197 Join date : 2017-10-24
| Subject: Re: Essex to Privy Council Mon 26 Apr 2021, 14:27 | |
| Hello Temperance and Meles meles! Yes, those are great answers. It confirms my first guess, that "Essex" was the name of the man, and that the sentence cited corresponds to what he said in a report addressed (and probably voiced over) to the Privy Council, since the Ireland initiative seems to be his (at least partially, if not predominantly). That makes much more sense than the other, somewhat far-fetched, second guess of mine, which I made, to be honest, just to make absolutely sure I could bar it out from the realm of the real, so to say… Thanks again. That's great help! |
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