I've only just seen your post LiR: I hope you're managing Ok, have you got anyone to help you with doing shopping and household stuff. When I broke my finger it was often the littlest of things - such as doing the washing up, tying my laces or trying to open a glass jar - that defeated me. So I sincerely hope you recover quickly.

Thanks for the good wishes, MM.  I've had a Tesco delivery since I broke my wrist and sent some washing (laundry not dishes) to a launderette.  The dishes I do in a plodding way but it does take a long time.  I've had offers of help but I want to try and be independent.  My shoes are either slip-on or bar at the moment so laces aren't a thing for me.  The tasks I can't do will still be there when I (hopefully) recover fully. People have mostly been decent though on Monday I went to the local shopping precinct to get my prescription.  While I was crossing the zebra crossing that day a lady said "Quickly, quickly".  She was in my age bracket and should have known better.  She might not have seen the splint but she could see I was using a walking stick (mainly for balance).  I said something like "Sorry going as quick as I can my wrist's broken".  Obviously if I really was stuck I would contact my neighbours.  I can't remember whether I mentioned that not having had people living in the house adjoining for many years I'd got used to putting on the radio or a podcast if I couldn't sleep but my new(ish) neighbours said (not nastily) that they could hear and had difficulty sleeping - they are both in essential industries so turn in early.  I've put on my headphones if I have slept badly since then but the chap came round today and said his partner/wife has been hearing the cat meow at night.  I said well I can't stop the cat meowing but I'll shut her out of my room.  The party wall is ridiculously thin between the two houses.

I've been looking for the declining skills thread - no luck.  So I did a search on Google for the whole site.  Still no luck but I got a message from Google that they had detected unfamiliar traffic on my computer.  I had to prove I wasn't a robot and click on "all the squares with motorcycles" - very strange.  I maybe don't visit Res Historica as often as I did a few years ago but I still visit quite often so I don't know why the computer flagged my search as being strange.

Was this the thread you were seeking LiR?

Common skills now forgotten or redundant

Meles meles wrote:

Was this the thread you were seeking LiR?

Common skills now forgotten or redundant

 I think you may very well be correct, MM.

As I can't do any transcription at present (well not at speed at least) I looked around for a few ideas to top up my pension and pass the time.  I've done a few online surveys (somewhat boring a lot of the time and I get kicked out of some of them because I don't fit the ideal profile for that particular survey and they are definitely paying below minimum wage).  Still you don't have to pay to join survey sites. I got around to wondering about the history of market research/surveys and some 'googling' brought me to an article in a blog (that offers transcription services) and if it is correct market research at least goes back to the 1920s, so about 100 years https://www.focusfwd.com/the-evolution-of-market-research-part-one/

The Starch Test mentioned in the article was to test the effectiveness of newspaper ads.  I can remember being approached by people in the street to be asked for my opinions or purchasing habits.  The last time was in the early 2000s in Camden Town in London.

As ever, if I have covered a subject already dealt with in another thread (I haven't been able to find one), do let me know and I'll adjust my commenting accordingly.  If there is not a dedicated thread I wasn't convinced the subject was in depth enough to merit my starting one.

Yesterday, 14 July, was of course la fête nationale in France, aka Bastille Day. For the traditional parade down the Champs-Elysées the guest of honour was the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a contraversial choice of guest perhaps but no doubt deliberately made to try and steer India away from Russia and to bolster France's influence in the East, particularly against China - and of course in the hope of selling India lots of very expensive French-made military equipment. Anyway leading the parade was a tri-service detachment of Indian troops and what I found particularly interesting was their marching style, with rather stiff legs and with the arms swinging high up to above shoulder level. I cannot physically get my arms backwards even to shoulder level and it must have been exhausting and uncomfortable to maintain this for the whole 2km route from the Arc de Triomphe to the saluting base in the Place de la Concorde.

Here they are leading the way at the front of the procession, first the Indian army, then the navy and finally the airforce, but all marching in the same impressive albeit rather extreme manner. They are followed by small guest units from some African countries and then the main parade of French forces, including right at the back the Foreign Legion marching with their traditional slow pace (hence why they are always last).



For obvious historic reasons the Indian armed forces adopted many practices from the British but this marching style seems very unique: did any British troops ever march like that?

Mind you extreme arm and leg movement does seem to be a part of the militaries of both India and Pakistan, as here in the daily ceremonial at the Wagah border crossing between the two countries, where their high-steppin' performance could put the Tiller Girls to shame.



Incidentally the live coverage on French TV mentioned that although Indian troops have marched in the Bastille Day parade several times, the last time this particular Indian Army unit, the Punjab Regiment, had been present was for the parade on 14 July 1916. Then of course they were part of the British Indian Army Expeditionary Force fighting on the Western Front and where in September 1915 they had fought with great distinction in the offensive at Neuve Chapelle (where now the main WW1 Indian Army war memorial is located).


Troops of the Punjab Regiment marching in the Bastille Day parade of 1916 (taken as a screen-shot from a France24 online news report).

I’ve seen that style of marching used by the Gurkha rifles although I’m not sure if it’s because they are light infantry within the Brigade or if it’s a specifically south Asian style of march. The quick march is certainly the standard mode of marching for light infantry and is emblematic of Shorncliffe Camp by Folkestone a traditional home of light infantry (including some Gurkha battalions).
   
It being Wimbledon Finals weekend Mrs V has bought a couple of punnets of strawberries and some double cream. The All-England Club also sources its strawberries from Kent but serves them with clotted cream from Cornwall for some reason. Given the choice, however, I tend to prefer raspberries and yoghurt. It’s the tartness I like.

Yes the British Army Gurkhas, being light infantry, do march fast but they don't swing their arms up anywhere near as high as those Indian troops. 



There are however Gorkha [sic] regiments in the Indian Army too and I see that they march that way with the arms swinging up beyond horizontal, so it looks like its a particular Indian thing.



For fast marching the French Chasseurs Alpins (mountain troops) also set a cracking pace, including their brass band who while marching throw their ceremonial hunting horns into the air as an extra bit of showmanship (and all while marching, quick-time, in heavy stiff-soled ski/mountaineering boots).



For real speed there's little to beat the British Rifles.



However for really reckless running while playing the trumpet there's nothing to beat the Italian Bersaglieri (in the following youtube they start off quite fast but then break into their distinctive quick march, at 140 beats per minute, around the 1:40 mark). How they manage to run and still have enough puff to play their instruments amazes me, meanwhile their distinctive "march" coupled with uneven cobbled Italian streets would I'd think be a recipe for the bandsmen losing their front teeth.

What we used to like in British food was clotted cream which for some reason isn't readily available in NZ/Aotearoa. We did know someone down south who made it for our annual fair and knew I liked it so would bring extra for me. Must see if I can see anywhere that sells it in Dunedin.

I don't know if you managed to source any clotted cream Caro. It's not that easy to find even in parts of Britain. It's fascinating how different styles of dairy products are so localised.  

The seasons have rolled around again. It's autumn in the British Isles now and time for stewed apples and custard. Yum.

I'm only drinking tea.  However I borrowed a book from the local launderette (it has one of those bookshelves where people donate books after they've finished them). I had two surprises.  The book was one of Bernard Cornwell's 'Sharpe' book published circa 2021.  I didn't realise that he was still writing 'Sharpe' books.  Also the book I read mentioned a vineyard in Paris.  I didn't realise there were vineyards other than those in Champagne in the north of France. Admittedly the book was set around the end of the Napoleonic War post-Waterloo.  However a google search brought this up Le Clos Montmartre: A Secret Vineyard in the heart of Paris | solosophie

I've had problems with internet access over the last few weeks.  I may have mentioned that I had to have a the screen on my laptop replaced.  Then my BT5 hub stopped functioning properly at the beginning of this week. A constant orange light is showing. I contacted BT and on the "somethingth" attempt I actually managed to contact a real person.  They sent me an EE mini-hub to be tide me over.  I have my Android phone of course but I'm rubbish at using the Android touchpad.  Perhaps I need a flexible keyboard - some of which at least can be used with a mobile phone (have a place to support the mobile phone).  I don't do that much home typing these days but I got some from a person I used to type for pre-pandemic at the beginning of the week.  Fortunately, I managed to complete the typing before the hub gave up the ghost.  BT have arranged for someone to come to upgrade the equipment for connecting to the internet.  The engineer will be coming on Friday so I have at least started playing catch-up regarding the household chores I've been leaving because of my manky back -  still plenty more to be caught up on!!!  The EE hub has to go back to BT once my broadband access is updated. And here endeth my explanation of why I've not been on Res Historica much lately.

Is it okay to ask a question about an old TV programme on this this thread? I wondered if anyone who was around in the 1950s remembers a pre-filmed programme called Stranger Than Fiction. From what I remember it featured quirks and oddities (like strange buildings and a hill where you could appear to be going uphill when going down) from around Britain.  It started with a cackling witch and then went into the theme tune played by Bert Weedon. I haven't found any relics of it on YouTube though there are clips of the theme tune.

I can't say that I remember Stranger Than Fiction LiR. Today, however, I saw and heard a robin singing in an apple tree. It was a beautiful sight against a blue sky and yet, for such a popular and pretty bird, the song of the robin is not that attractive. In fact it's actually quite harsh. Further in the distance there was the unmistakable sound of a great tit. Famously loud and a sure herald of Spring, the great tit however couldn't compete with the decibelage of the robin from where I was standing. But birdsong is birdsong and after a fitful start and a very wet and chilly March it seems that Spring in the British Isles has finally sprung.

P.S. I always thought that the saying regarding March weather was "in like a lamb and out like a lion" and that has indeed been my experience of the month for much of my life. I've only recently discovered that commonly the saying is the other way around - i.e. "in like a lion and out like a lamb". March 2024 may well correspond with that version but I think that the other is more interesting and realistic.

How could you dismiss the song of a robin as "not that attractive" and even "quite harsh"? I think it's a lovely song that combines sweet pure notes, little churrs, warbles and delicate variations. Mind you, to another rival male robin it's probably full of cocky bravado, territorial menace and aggressive threats of extreme violence. I've also only just noticed from that youtube, that birds - or at least robins - do not necessarily open their mouths to sing: they can produce all that powerful vocal dexterity with their beak clamped firmly shut. Perhaps they are just being tight-lipped about what they really think ... only birds do not actually have lips.



PS : Regarding the expression "in like a lamb and out like a lion" (or visa versa) the monumental glossary 'A Compleat Collection of English Proverbs', by John Ray (4th edition publ. 1768) has the saying as,
"March hack ham, comes in like a lion, goes out like a lamb."
Here 'hack ham' seems to be a version of hackande, meaning annoyingly, which I suspect is the origin of the modern expression, cack-handed, meaning awkward or clumsy.

For the month of March John Ray also included the saying,
"March winds and May fun, makes clothes white and maid's dun."
I'm not entirely sure what this was all about, but it seems Ray had a pretty good idea despite not giving an explanation, as he added a disclaimer, "... some Proverbs have given offence to sober and pious persons, as favouring too much of obscenity, being apt to suggest impure fancies to corrupt minds."

This is surely a recording of 2 robins - with one replying and the pictured one listening to a reply off and on. i have noticed this with other  garden bird twittering back and forth that sound like one stream. This one's repertoire is not quite the same as my robin's (this year's that is)

I suppose I should have added 'relative to some other birds' when describing the robin's call as being not that attractive. The 'harshness' related to the bird's proximity to me (only about 6 feet away) and its loudness. It really was going for it vocally and was definitely ruffled almost certainly be another male nearby. Maybe it was me. Here's a recording of a robin's territorial call:

Erithacus rubecula

P.S. Maid's dun does conjure up all kinds of images. It's no wonder Ray disclaimed it.

I like the song of the robin. In the past I've sometimes worried when robins have followed me in the garden when I've tried to tidy it up in my less than expert way (because my cat(s) of the era would have its/their eyes on the robin(s)).  I suppose the robin(s) were watching to see if I turned up a (to them) tasty morsel.

Changing the subject, while I quaff my coffee, I spent a short while listening to a German rendition of a Flemish sea shanty which mentions going to Iceland to fish for cod. Wer will mit nach Island ziehen [German version of Flemish sea shanty][+English translation] (youtube.com) I remember there being disputes between the UK and Iceland regarding fishing in waters near Iceland.  Does anyone know if there was ever friction between Belgium and Iceland concerning fishing in Icelandic waters.  I haven't found anything online to indicate that there have been such problems.

LadyinRetirement wrote:

In the past I've sometimes worried when robins have followed me in the garden when I've tried to tidy it up in my less than expert way (because my cat(s) of the era would have its/their eyes on the robin(s)).

The other day there was a strange sight in the garden. A colared dove was chasing a magpie around and winning. This was odd becasue the magpie must have been twice the weight of the dove and its beak four times the size. Then it struck me. Magpies are well known for teasing and even tormenting domestic cats. So maybe it was just toying with the dove. The dove presumably was so exercised because the magpie had probably done something awful regarding the dove's nest.  

On a cheerier note - the garden itself looks resplendent in white with apple blossom and clematis adorning.

Before the house adjacent to mine was sold at auction (the other half of the semi-detached) the garden had gone wild when the house was unoccupied.  There were some tall conifers and I recall hearing a cooing though I'm not sure I ever saw the birds.  Some bluebirds used to nest in one big tree and I sometimes saw a couple of grey squirrels.  The conifers were cut down when the builder who bought the house was "doing it up".  I still get birds in my suburban garden but less variety.

Changing topic,  I'm sure there was a thread about the way the world around us has changed (is changing) but I can't find it. (Not the once common, now redundant skills thread)..I'm a lot better than I was a couple of weeks ago so I've not done much energetic and have watched videos/read books a lot.  I'm popping this here at least temporarily.  I (sort of) knew this area of East London though I worked (and for a time lodged) in Bow rather than Hackney.  At 26.18 of the video there is a stamp dispenser (unused of course).  I remember when they were commonplace.  Around 23.00 - or 23 and a bit - the guide mentions and shows a weather vane in the shape of a cockerell and mentions that the rooster shape was used on account of the Biblical tale of St Peter denying knowledge of Christ three times. I never knew that about weather vanes - not that they have fallen totally out of use.