Forces went into Afghanistan among other reasons, in an effort to clobber the growth of terrorism - have i got that right? Internal security has since stepped up no end but not fool proof in that problem people still cause problems. With a flood of migrants and refugees now arriving we are surely getting closer to having idenitity cards.

Now liberal minded say that is an infringement yet we are already tagged in many different ways  in data banks, passports and licenses. Apart from WW2 times has there ever been any other serious attempt for a population to carry proof of identity?
I have no problem with owning a card stuffed with info to prove that I am me - but yet many object. Has it always been thus? I cannot imagine a community in days of yore protesting if they had to prove identity. People make no complaint about passports so what is the problem with  cards for internal use? That we might become a police state I have heard said....... a chance would be a fine thing.
Police seem now to sit behind computers or put on  yellow jackets for out side jollies to met up and chat  - get to ride horses sometimes and to bypass traffic in time for tea with flashing lights on their cars. In the old days they had good legs to  walk the streets - plod is the word, I think.
To carry a card to help identify those who infiltrate seems to me to be a better thing than risking squaddies' lives in places that breed terrorists and at great expense - never forgetting that  we have homegrown varieties of  violent people with a grudge who need identifying.
Just my thoughts and not really expecting a response now. Res Hist members are few and those who peep in to the site who could join seem to have no opinion.... sad.

As Wikimisleadia sums it up,
Three main reasons for the introduction of the identity cards were:

• 1. The major dislocation of the population caused by mobilisation and mass evacuation and also the wartime need for complete manpower control and planning in order to maximise the efficiency of the war economy.
  
• 2. The likelihood of rationing (introduced from January 1940 onwards).
  
• 3. Population statistics. As the last census had been held in 1931, there was little accurate data on which to base vital planning decisions. The National Register was in fact an instant census and the National Registration Act closely resembles the Census Act 1920 in many ways.
  
• By the time they were abolished, I understand they were being used for over 50 different (mostly pettifogging bureaucratic) purposes. I suspect that the "id cards" that look certain to be introduced "to prevent voter fraud" (of which there were the staggering number of no less than SIX authenticated cases at the last general election) will similarly be pressed into service to harvest our data (which will, infallibly, be leaked or sold).
  

I think you hint that it might be an unnecessary and misused tool. Having lived in countries that use identity cards, it was in fact a boon. To lose a card was a real headache - people took great care of them and also produced them with pride when asked. Mark you these were simple without all the electronic revelations that might be stored. I never felt my freedom restricted by them anyway. The nature of freedom -or rather one's perception of personal freedom is all rather relative - said the goldfish in a bowl.

Indeed, P. The only benefit of brexit for me is that I now have a French Carte de Séjour, showing I have the right to permanent residence but also effectively functioning as an identity card. To do anything banking-wise, to buy or sell a house or just a car, to vote, to verify one's signature etc ... all require presentation of an identity card or passport. Now with my carte de séjour i no longer have to carry around my British passport ... and bear in mind that as I'm close to the frontier it is quite easy to take a wrong turn and end up in Spain without my passport if I wasn't intending to go that way. Now I have a small plastic-laminated, credit card-sized identity card always in my wallet.

Passports in their modern form really only came into widespread use after WW1. They had been introduced by European governments during the war for security reasons and to control the emigration of people with useful skills and these controls remained in place thereafter. Beginning in the mid-nineteenth century and up until the Great War, the rapid expansion of the railways, fast steam ships and good roads, had led to large increases in the speed of travel and the number of passengers crossing multiple borders, which all made enforcement of passport laws difficult. Passports were not generally required to travel within Europe and crossing a border was a relatively straightforward procedure, consequently comparatively few people held passports. In the centuries before this casual travellers were much rarer and did generally need a passport - in part to allow them to be identified by the authorities abroad but also as proof of governmental permission to travel outside one's own country (obviously this was only required for important people; ordinary merchants and sailors mostly came and went as they pleased). Such permission to travel outside the realm was not automatically given and when it was, the passport was often limited in terms of dates and destinations or was applicable only for a specific reason.  

Nevertheless passports were granted in some quite surprising situations. The eminent scientist Sir Humphrey Davy was issued a passport to travel to Paris in 1813 at the height of the Napoleonic Wars, to receive the prestigious Prix du Galvanisme, a medal that Napoleon Bonaparte had awarded Davy for his electro-chemical work. While in Paris, Davy and Michael Faraday, who had accompanied him, visited French scientists and attended lectures at the Institut de France. That's a bit like, say, James Chadwick, John Cockcroft and Ernest Walton being allowed to travel to Berlin in 1942 to discuss nuclear fission with German scientists. Even so it was as Faraday noted:
"Tis indeed a strange venture at this time, to trust ourselves in a foreign and hostile country, where so little regard is had to protestations of honour, that the slightest suspicion would be sufficient to separate us for ever from England, and perhaps from life".
The French authorities were indeed suspicious despite the letters of invite from the Institut de France and Davy's luggage was searched on several occasions. From France they continued to Italy and Germany but abandoned plans to go to Greece and Istanbul after Napoleon's escape from Elba in 1815.

That's really interesting, MM - and I cannot actually see the ownership of such cards being used as a tool to control the French..... not sure what it would take to do that. Also the extra info  you added above - as you do so  often provide of relevant and fascinating detail and history is ever interesting.
I can see the value of having such identity cards . It can be a trial here not having one.
My cleaning lady needed to get something official done but had no passport or driving licence and all household bills etc are in her husband's name. All we could think of was that she shot herself in the relevant office and waited for her death certificate to be accepted as proof of identity... and that was iffy.... and would put me out no end and of  trouble and be of greatly reduced value to her.
To have an identity card such as MM holds, would make so many things in transaction and business less open to fraud and crime. In protecting what they see as their freedom the objectors load so much onto the rest of us and  protect those who bend, avoid and break the law. As I see it, your card, MM, gives you more freedom than you had before.

The French national ID card (carte nationale d’identité or CNI) is ubiquitous in France but it is not actually compulsory, nevertheless all persons in France, whether French citizens, resident foreigners or just foreign visitors, must possess some form of valid government-issued identity documentation, hence for me that was my British passport. You don't need to carry it with you at all times but if required must be able to present it to government authorities, like say the local gendarmerie, within a reasonable time. If asked for ID in the street the gendarmes can legally detain you for up to four hours while they establish your identity (which might be just with a your driving licence, or even your gym membership card if that satisfies them) but that's really only going to be enforced if there is some sort of major incident happening, they are having a particularly bad day, or one is being deliberately difficult.

The identity card is valid for a period of 10 years and is issued by the local préfecture, sous-préfecture, or mairie (town hall) in larger cities. It is free of charge provided it's your first or you surrender the old one (otherwise it's just €25); there was similarly no charge for my Carte de Séjour. It carries the holder's photo, signature, current address, date and place of birth, and the modern ones are machine readable. A set of the holder's fingerprints are also taken on issue but this is stored in paper files which can only be accessed by a judge in very closely defined circumstances. A central database duplicates the information on the card but again strict laws limit access to the information and specifically prevent it being linked to other databases or records, such as a driving licence or national medical card (Carte Vitale), which are themselves both managed by separate databases and legal controls. The card can be used as a travel document throughout the EU (plus a few other countries, although no longer to the UK) and is a legal means of showing age (eg to buy tobacco or alcohol) in EU countries. In other words, it is a very useful thing to have.

Perhaps France is over-fixated on ID cards and their use (and France does love its standardized, bureaucratic procedures for doing things) but as I've said ID cards are not mandatory and there are alternatives, at least in theory. However all the other 'proof of residence' documents - principally utility bills - do not always cover this for everyone. My EDF (electricity) bill has a typo which they refuse to correct, so my bill statements do not exactly match my written address (although the postman always manages to get them to me) and accordingly these bills are always refused as 'proof of address'. At the same time one of my neighbours lives completely off-grid and has no electricity, water, gas, nor sewerage ... and so he has no bills at all (though I'm sure he still pays his taxes) so what's he supposed to do to prove that he does actually live there? In short a national ID card: it really does make life so much easier.

At the moment there are some demonstrations in France, mixed in with general anti-vax protests, against the compulsory requirement to have a Pass Sanitaire (showing that one is fully vaccinated against covid) to enter restaurants, cinemas, big shopping malls, large sports gatherings, tourist resorts etc. But the national identity card seems to be so embedded and accepted into everyday life that I've encountered very few people ever complaining about it and polls generally show something like 60-70% actively in favour of it.

Posted the following on bread thread in error!

I know two people who have refused vaccination because of the microchip conspiracy. Apparently we jabees now carry a microchip in our left arms, devices which are the ultimate in Big Brother identity control.

I mentioned this a couple of days ago to Priscilla (in an email) and she has responded with an indignant comment which really did make me laugh - something I have not done for several days now (thank you for that, P.). Poor Priscilla noted that she didn't get her microchip - why? Was this omission an NHS/UK government error, or is her lack of chip a deliberate conspiracy against her personally? Is she not deemed worthy of a chip?

Seriously, I do think these protesting people are overgrown teenagers who dearly love a good rebellion against any kind of perceived authority - anything to be bloody difficult and cause a tiresome kerfuffle. After all, we all have our NHS cards and numbers - jolly useful in the event of an accident, and my driving licence has a series of mysterious digits which obviously tell all about me and my various doings. It also has a dreadful photo of me (same as the one on my passport) which makes me look like that hard-faced British granny from a couple of years back who was caught smuggling cocaine out of Peru (that wasn't me).

PS And our mobile phones track us and our every move at all hours of the day and night - and we not even injected with them.

PPS I suppose in the very olden days no one cared who you were - unless you were very posh or the servant of a very posh person. You had your various badges and liveries back then as your ID. I still hanker after that Richard III boar badge found at Bosworth, although not much use after 1485. In fact downright dangerous to sport such a token.

I'm not very bothered about the driving licence or similar (though I do NOT trust the current UK government one Angstrom), but once they use chips in id cards I for one won't carry one. My mobile phone won't help them much - habitually turned off except at home. The "facial recognition" van has been in action again in London this week, despite the fact it's known to be poor at matching names to faces (better than I am, I suppose), particularly for anyone with a darker skin tone.

G.G. I have been mulling over your reservations about chipped ID cards. I guess you fear intrusion or lack of confidentiality  - or something. I am hard put to think of anything about me that is not recorded on some data base somewhere - not to mention IT browsing trackers. And if something more sinister is suspected in chip technology I am hard put to believe that we could ever get an undercover set of controllers who could efficiently manage 60,000,000 lives to their bidding,.... getting an accurate electricity bill can take months of intensive follow through and heaps of 'Soreeee for the error,' exchanges. We are, I venture. far from the science fiction world of incredible efficiency - unless we go robotic and you could frighten yourself into a quivering mess if you engage with that notion.
The lack of identity cards gives all the scammers, illegals, rogues and ne'er do wells the freedom for an open playing field of mayhem ;  with a card and with nothing to hide one has nothing to fear, surely.

I've been mulling over this too ... but where you, GG, see dark dangers, albeit largely undefined, I still just see practical advantages. In France an ID card (or its equivalent, such as a foreign passport) is already required if you want to get a job, start a business, own a car, open a bank account, rent or buy somewhere to live, or get any state assistance in terms of unemployment benefits, healthcare, housing assistance, voting rights, or schooling for your children etc. Accordingly it is a much sought after right/benefit and so its issue is very strictly controlled.

Nevertheless many of the refugees/migrants gathering around Calais and Dunkerque still refuse to register with the French authorities, which would be the essential first step towards getting immediate practical help, being granted asylum and eventually, possibly, getting citizenship and all the benefits and responsibilities that come with that. Many, so it seems, prefer their unregistered life in limbo, awaiting a hazardous passage across the Channel to the promised land of the UK ... where ID registration does not exist, few questions about one's background are ever asked, benefits and medical treatment are generously given regardless of eligibility or need, and it's easy to simply disappear into an unregulated cash-in-hand economy.

I reckon the UK will introduce EU-style identity cards - with chips and with biometric data - within a few years. It will probably be sold to the British electorate as a means to counter terrorism and perhaps with an anti-immigrant slant: "British cards for British people", or "Be proud and show that you're British: get your ID card today". But essentially it will be just what most European countries have had, without any problems, for many years.

Meles meles wrote:

The eminent scientist Sir Humphrey Davy was issued a passport to travel to Paris in 1813 at the height of the Napoleonic Wars, to receive the prestigious Prix du Galvanisme, a medal that Napoleon Bonaparte had awarded Davy for his electro-chemical work. While in Paris, Davy and Michael Faraday, who had accompanied him, visited French scientists and attended lectures at the Institut de France.

A truly remarkable episode. And even more so when one considers the mutual antagonism which was par for the course between France and Britain during that era:





(A caricature by Thomas Rowlandson from September 1808 during the early phase of the Peninsula War when it looked as though popular uprisings in Portugal and Spain would expel French forces under Bonaparte's brother Joseph from Iberia. The elation would be short lived, however, as within 2 months of the cartoon's publication Napoleon himself would arrive with an army of over 250,000 soldiers to crush the rebellion.)

My apologies for letting open a tangent and wandering away on that, but the cartoon in Vizzer's message made me remember the novel by Dumas, "The Comte de Monte Christo", taking place some years later than the cartoon. 
A French army of 'A 100.000 sons of Saint Louis' had by invitation of King Ferdinand VII  about 1823 invaded Spain in order to reinstate said king's absolutism from his first reign (1808-13) when British led and fed armies more or less had kicked Napoleon's French led - but not fed - armies from the Iberian peninsula.
In the mean time the King had abided by the (Spanish) Constitution of 1812 (Cadiz) until he formally came back into power 1814, and promptly re-introduced Absolutism until a military coup in 1820 put him - almost all but in name into house arrest - until this French army 'freed' him.
At more or less the same time movements in the colonies in the Americas started rebelling against the authority of the Spanish-born over the local 'criollos' - often infused by modern French liberal ideas.

In my opinion this was to lead to just about the next century of many revolutions and counter revolutions which make (Spanish - and their former colonies) history both interesting and irritating.

Instead of using proper investigative means for my tangent I have relied on my memory for the novel and wiki for the rest. This is what reading cartoons may lead to.

Do you seriously think, given the farrago of errors in successive projects, that any IT-based system of ID cards in the UK could actually work with any degree of accuracy? I'm tempted to say "dream on!"

Actually, after thought, yes because the benefits might offset the growing abuses of our systems. Better an imperfect system than none at all if it stalls the shadowy ones who infiltrate our democratic - or what passes for it - system, as best we can. Much as we might all like to swing about in the heady breeze of freedom and free choice in everything, 60 plus millions doing the same would not work. And God be with anyone who gets into the heady business of trying to govern it all; there are many of great  ability and wisdom who govern from their armchairs but sadly very few who stand up and get out there to actually have a go at doing it.