I'm starting this topic because it seems to me that it is also very little known in the West.I mean the preventive war against Germany with 1933, which ultimately did not take place, but if it could succeeded and Hitler was then overthrown, the IIWW, and thus the countless suffering of people, would never have broken out.

The plan of the preventive war was developed immediately after Hitler took power in Germany in January 1933. This plan was created in the mind of ... Marshal of Poland - Józef Piłsudski and assumed a joint, quick war against Germany from countries such as Poland, France and Belgium, in order to remove Hitler and the Nazis and install a new pacyfist German government there.

It was, of course, an unofficial proposal (Piłsudski, like Napoleon the Great, liked to use secret diplomacy), but clearly defined - a joint, quick war against the resurgent german power. This plan was an attempt to save what failed during the war of 1920, i.e. to rebuild Ukraine and Belarus with military and political alliances tied to Poland. It was only a matter of time before Germany and Russia (USSR) would reconcile again to liquidate Poland and return to the 1914 borders, and one dictator needed another to start a war.

Hitler needed Stalin, because without oil, fuel and other raw materials from Russia and without the support of the USSR against Poland, he could not start this war, and Stalin needed Hitler as a kind of "icebreaker" who would lead to a turmoil and he started a war with France and Great Britain ( Stalin hoped, that the war with these countries would be a trench warfare, just like during the IWW). He thought that Germany and the Allies would bleed each other out in the fights in the West, and then he would enter and ... "liberate" Europe as far as Paris. The triumph of the Soviets would then be complete, twenty years after their defeat at Warsaw, they would take over all of Europe. Therefore, Stalin needed and supported Hitler to start his war and lay the foundations for the Russian conquest.

The aim of the preventive war was therefore the liquidation of the "soviet servant", i.e. Hitler (of course, Hitler did not consider himself an ally of Stalin, but that was just unimportant, especially since Hitler was an idiot, because he was able to lose the war he had already won against the USSR). Unfortunately, France did not want to get involved in this, and the intervention of Poland itself was not an option, as it would mean her own aggression, while the war in the coalition could be perceived as an attempt to eliminate nazism.

Forgive me for that too, but I think that France, just like Germany and the Soviet Union, is almost equally guilty of the outbreak of World War II, because it simply did not want to fight (nor in 1933, nor in 1936, nor in 1939, nor in 1940 in defense of its own land) )

So I would like to ask if any of you know or have heard about the preventive war of 1933 and what is (possibly) being written about it in your countries?


Finally, as I cannot add files to this forum yet, I would only like to add a link to a television theater about these intentions by Józef Piłsudski in such an obscure way. Unfortunately - the movie is in Polish and there is no translation, so probably not many of you will understand it, but still ... it's worth watching.


h t t p s : / / t e a t r  tv . v o d . t v p . p l / 3 4 9 4 2 7 0 8 / m a r s z a l e k


Let me just give you a few interesting quotes from this movie:

17:35 - In the beginning, I even liked Hitler. I told myself - a simple folk boy, not a Prussian, because these junkers - they are the worst, they hate us, us, Poles because they feel better than us. And besides, they are fat, like their prime minister - Goering. How can you get fat like this, gentlemen? He had to sit on two chairs and on his sides and that was how his big ass was pouring out.

18:20 - This Hitler is a modern man, he is thin, he does not eat meat, he does not drink beer - a modern man ... and yet a rascal. They are nodding him with these paws "hail, hail".

18:40 - Supposedly, in Mein Kampf he wrote that Vienna changed him, he was a gray citizen but he left Vienna as a fanatical antisemite.

6:50 pm -  idiot! After all, such a youngster in Vienna should learn a waltz, get a feint, and not become a street Fuhrer.

19:05 - He, Mr. Marshal, to dance and to women rather not too much, he prefers to devote himself to the idea.

19:15 - I'm talking idiot! The chancellor of the German Reich is an imbecile. But gentlemen, this is a chance for us. We will blow it out like a candle and in a year no one will remember him.

25:20 - Hitler's rise to power changed the situation in Europe. In the East and in the West, gangs of criminals rule.

26:10 - I'm just saying we understand very well what war means, but Corporal Hitler doesn't seem to know it. But this insolent shirker tells us what he wants.

26:20 - Have you read Mein Kampf? What does it say about Poland?

26:45 - Probably only that the Weimar Republic conducts an inconsistent policy towards Poland, it did not lead to reconciliation or conflict. Nothing more.

26:55 - I think there is much more about Poland there.

27:40 - This is it! They want to change the direction of German expansion to the East, and fate alone shows them this direction - fate!

28:10 - What was there about Poland?

Nothing, Mr. Marshal, there was not a word about Poland.

28:25 - And that's what this is all about, gentlemen, because Poland does not exist for these people anymore, it is not on the maps. That's why I decided that we would be the first to hit.

32:15 - The danger of the German-Russian alliance always exists for Poland and is always fatal.

32:40 - Hitler is a bandit.

33:00 - Mr. professor, look who you see? ... You have three dangerous terrorists in front of you!

33:50 - They chased us with arrest warrants, organized manhunts, we attacked trains, and killed people. We terrorists!

34:30 - I don't see, I don't see any reason why Poland should cease to exist again, even if it ends with a war. (...) The invaders will move to make up for the losses suffered in the World War, and these losses are us and our neighbors.



Sorry that I elaborated on this topic in such a way.

1936 was a better opportunity. A couple of battalions of troops from Belgium, France, and UK to expel the German troops from the Rhineland would have seen Hitler and the Nazis on the scrapheap in a couple of days.

Green George wrote:

1936 was a better opportunity. A couple of battalions of troops from Belgium, France, and UK to expel the German troops from the Rhineland would have seen Hitler and the Nazis on the scrapheap in a couple of days.

The only problem was that France did not want to fight either in 1933 or 1936 (although then such a proposal for a common war was again made by the polish side), nor in 1938, nor in 1939, nor in 1940.

I do not know if it is known (and I would be ready to bet not) that in 1936 the USA and Poland jointly overthrew the king of Great Britain - Edward VIII (he officially resigned because of his love for Wallis Simpson). It happened because he was a progerman politician, and the goal of Polish politics was to draw Great Britain into war with Germany at all costs (Piłsudski, already on his deathbed in may 1935, said to Minister Beck: "You to introduce the British into the war, this is our only chance"). On the other hand, Edward VIII, who praised Hitler and met with him many times, did not guarantee Great Britain's entry into the war (the more so as Great Britain was completely unprepared for the war, when Polish airmen visited England in 1937, they were terrified by the small amount and technical condition of the British aircraft).

The USA also wanted the overthrow of the pro-German king of Great Britain (they even developed a war plan with Great Britain in case it sided with Germany in the coming World War II conflict). In addition, the Americans had a certain debt to the Poles when in 1932, the Last God of War (General Patton was the penultimate God of War) - General Douglas MacArthur, came to Poland (on the order of President Hoover). Then the Americans received an unusual gift, namely the codes of two Soviet encryption machines decrypted by Polish intelligence: "Revolution" and Fialka (by the way, the Russians did not know about their decoding by Poles and used these codes until ... 1954. These codes for the Americans, probably helped save the lives of many US soldiers during the Korean War).

It should be remembered that at that time polish intelligence was one of the best and most effective in the world. It was three polish mathematicians from the 2nd Division of the General Staff of the Polish Army who decrypted the Enigma codes in December 1932 (they were: Marian Rejewski, Jerzy Różycki and Henryk Zygalski). In 1920, the Soviet codes were also deciphered, so that the Polish intelligence had exact knowledge of how many armies the Soviets sent to the Vistula and what their individual divisions were.

Others (mainly Latvians, Romanians and Japanese) also came to Poland for training. The alliance with Japan in particular was very strong and it even survived the outbreak of war. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Japan became an enemy of the Allies and individual countries, except Poland, declared war on it. Ultimately, the Poles were also "persuaded" to declare war on the Japanese, but then something unheard of happened, because ... Japan did not accept the declaration of war, declaring that Poland was fighting for its independence and was forced into war by the Americans. Theoretically, the war broke out, in practice Polish and Japanese intelligence continued their cooperation throughout the entire period of World War II (and when the Allies decided to send one of the Polish destroyers to the Pacific, the crew protested and started a revolt, claiming that they would not fight the Japanese. Because our enemies were the Germans and the Soviets (not even Italians anymore), but certainly not the Japanese.
(Gen. Patton once laughed that Gen. Anders told him that if his troops entered between the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, then ... he would not know with whom to fight, because both sides were enemies of independent Poland).


Coming back to MacArthur, he was disgusted (then in 1932) when it turned out that the Americans could not repay the Poles with anything similar. In any case, later in West Point in an interview with cadets, he claimed that Marshal Piłsudski was: "The greatest chief in the history of the world since Napoleon's times." And then in Korea in 1950 at Incheon he used exactly the same maneuver that Piłsudski carried out in 1920 near Warsaw, going to the rear of the enemy troops and freeing Seoul from the hands of the North Koreans (he kicked their asses so much that they didn't know where to flee).