Many people would know how to knit even the most basic stitch, and it is now considered a mere pastime or hobby. But once the art of knitting was a necessity and I've often wondered exactly how far back does knitting go? Where does it originate?

A little searching and I found this lovely site http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEspring06/FEAThistory101.html . Like many of our best inventions, knitting appears to have come from the East and isn't as old as I would have thought. The oldest knitted item found to date is Coptic dating to 1000CE and despite the common assumption today, knitted items were traditionally made using cotton yarn, not wool.



Before knitting, ie with two needles, there was nalebinding. I hadn't head of this before, the finished product is similar to knitting but the construction is different and slower. Involving passing a single (sewing type) needle through loops of thread http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%A5lebinding The earliest example of nalebinding (below) dates to the 300s and is (again) Egyptian.



The earliest example of knitting we have in Europe is found in (what was then) Moorish Spain, it is silk and dates to 1275. After this time knitting appears to have spread throughout Europe until everyone was busily at it, even the shepherds. Although it is unclear when the transformation was made from using cotton or silk yarns to woollen yarn.



All well and good, but I can't help but think of those Roman socks, evidence of which has been found in Britain. Is knitting older than we thought and those socks worn by the Romans actually made using the two needles as we asumed. Or could they have been made using the nalebinding technique instead?

I think that the Roman socks were woven rather than knitted.

Yes, I've done a little more digging (no pun!) around and it doesn't seem to be the case that they were knitted ferval. Or not as we know the term anyway. http://www.romanarmy.net/coldweather.htm

Roman socks were made in two ways, either by fabric cut and stitched together


or by the 'sprang' method with is similar to crochet, although not quiet apparently. Samples of the sprang type sock survive from Egypt, which had a seperate toe to accomodate thong type sandals.

And here is sprang weaving http://www.denblauwenswaen.nl/public/sites/english/techniques/sprang/sprang.htm

Naal binding or nalebinding


And sprang weaving

Sprang weaving is really ancient, that's how those nifty bronze age hairnets in the 'dress' thread were made. It's like a complicated cat's cradle method and one I'd like to experiment with some time.

http://www.evakoch.dk/HTML/huer-UK.htm

Could one not also make socks by the technique that I know as French knitting or spool knitting - using a wooden spool with several nails in the end - to produce a tube of 'knitted' fabric? My sister used to make things with this when she was young before she progressed to 'proper', two-needles, knitting in her teens. To me French knitting seems a much simpler technique than 2-needle knitting, but I do not know when it was first developed.

And now I think about it, I was the only one in our family who never learned to knit. My mother was always a keen knitter and my sister still knits. But it was only quite late that I discovered that my father could knit too. He had been taught as a child by his mother and was then duly expected to contribute to the domestic supply of socks, jumpers, gloves and woolly hats. He said that it was then not at all uncommon for boys and men to knit, and that in Northumberland, where he grew up, as in Scotland, knitting was never seen as an occupation just for women.

EDIT : Thanks for the youtubes ID: while a picture may speak a thousand words, a succinct well-made video clip speaks millions!

I was thinking of that French knitting too, and wondered if that naal binding (I wanted to say 'biting!) was similar, though the description didn't sound like it. The picture does rather.

I should be knitting now instead of writing here - new baby's hoodie isn't finished yet. Only knitting I've done for about 20 years is for my new grandchildren - and they don't wear them anyway.

Didn't we talk about this on the BBC boards once? I recall a discussion somewhere, though not, of course, any useful details from it.

The naal binding seems like tatting crossed with crotchet but using a needle rather than a shuttle or a hook. I'm afraid I couldn't see clearly enough on the video to be able to copy it. Anyway, I've too many other things I should be doing so naal-ing and sprang-ing will need to join the long list of things to be tried one day.

French knitting or spool knitting is a hand held version of the larger Knitting Nancy
which was used for making socks and stockings. The smaller spool was used for making cords, or as far as I've been able to understand anyway. There is a brief history here http://spoolknitter.blogspot.gr/2007/07/henley-knitting-nancy.html . Scroll down and click on the brown pages for a larger readable image.

Yes, we did discuss knitting on the Beeb Caro, but didn't go into great depth. I remember, on looking at the Roman sock (above) we concluded that Roman women could do a very fine herringbone stitch! Heavens, I now realise we couldn't have been further from the truth.

I'm still puzzled as to when knitting with two needles actually began though. It is fairly conclusive that sprang weaving is the oldest and possibly the 'mother' of all other techniques that came later. Naalbinding appears to have come next, and appears to be the precursor of crochet?

Then there is a gap until the knitted Coptic sock above from 1000AD, it is quite advanced work and has a turned heel and everything, surely it would have been done on 4 kneedles? Knitting has to have been around a while before that time, although just because that it is the oldest surviving piece does not mean that that is when knitting was invented of course.

I'm stunned by King Eric of Sweden's silk stockings though and can't possibly imagine doing them.


In 1566, King Eric of Sweden
had a garment inventory done; he owned twenty-seven
pairs of silk stockings imported from Spain, each pair
costing the same as his valet's ANNUAL salary (What
a clothes horse! He's lucky he didn't have taxpayers
to answer to).

The gauge on these stockings
was completely insane; Nancy Bush says the gauge of
one pair is 25 stitches and 32 rows PER INCH. Yes, INCH.
This was before the invention of knitting frames or
anything else in terms of automation; these babies were
knit by hand.

And it wasn't until the mid 1500s that the purl stitch was invented! Until then knitted items had curly edges. This silk jacket has a gauge
of 8.5 stitches per cm, or about 17 stitches per inch.)

The Knitting Madonna by Bertram of Minden, Visit of the Angel from the Buxtehude Altar, Germany 1400-10. Knitting on the round for seamless garments, using 4 or more needles was the traditional method. The two needle method, or flat knitting with seams as is common now is a relatively modern innovation.



Another Knitting Madonna, by Ambrogio Lorenzetti of Siena 1345

Bertram of Minden can never have tried to knit or paid much attention to anyone who did. Holding the work like that would get you nowhere and the pattern for the garment would be impossible. I love her top though.
Ambrogio Lorenzetti's knitter is much more convincing, she knows how to hold the needles.

I can see so much wrong with Bertram's Madonna, not least is the Nordic features with blonde hair and blue eyes! If I could get hold of these silly men I'd give them a good shaking, but then, I probably would have been burnt at the stake. Her top is gorgeous isn't it, she looks very much like she is dressed in a sari.

Now Lorenzo's version is fascinating, even though we have yet another blonde Mary and Jesus. Mary must have been knitting with either silk or cotton there with all the spools on a board in the front. What a great idea, no getting the different coloured strands tangled or having the spool run off across the room. I'll have to see if I can find a close up of what she is knitting, it is too hard to make out in that photo.

Oh look! http://www.flickr.com/photos/claning/sets/72157594483569366/with/361270062/

Ah, good on you ferval, problem solved! I've been fussing around trying to find those photos on non-flickr sites, can't copy and paste flickr stuff.

This knitting business must be popular and the real enthusiasts well heeled.

http://www.joycejamestours.com/2013/Scotland/index.html

One of those "knitting madonna" pictures on that Flickr page is very odd. Not only is she not knittting in it but Baby Jesus seems to have acquired a pair of Ray Bans.



Look at her finger - you can almost hear the high pitched "Coochey, coochey, coo!" on the implied soundtrack.

And Jesus seems to be saying 'oh not again, get a grip mother'

The descriptions of the painting say Mary is holding her knitting in one hand and a needle in the other, which Jesus is clasping. The Madonna dell'Umilta by Vitale da Bologna 1353.

Instead of the knitting Madonna, how about the knitted Madonna?

Have you been looking in the Catholic Women's Knitting Association sites ferval? lol

When trawling the net for info I found heaps of such groups, it was a real eye opener. It seems because a few medieval men (with their heads in ga ga land) painted Mary knitting, then it must be a sanctioned and blessed pass time. She's one of us!

What I choose to do in private for a cheap thrill is no one's business but my own.

It's interesting though that tubular knitting came first so would that suggest that it derived from making something like fish traps and nets which were that shape?

The very question I've been trying to find the answer to and as far as I've been able to determine, no-one knows nor knows exactly when knitting first began.

Knitting definitely came from the East, and seems (to me) to be the natural progression from naalbinding, which was circular also. Some theories suggest that naalbinding was derived from the making of nets, and then later used to make garments that need to be circular like socks, mittens and caps. But when (and if) the technique moved from using a single sewing needle to 4 knitting needles is shrouded in mystery.

I suppose the problem is that the materials used were organic, so it is extremely rare to find items that could have survived in the ground?

Mary knitting seems to have become a popular depiction first in Italian paintings of the 14th century, more or less when the practise became popular amongst women of higher social strata within that culture. However it seems simply to have been a variation on earlier depictions of Mary sewing and Mary weaving, a long tradition in iconography associating Mary with the "seamless garment" mentioned in the gospels over which Roman soldiers argued at the crucifixion. During the Middle Ages there were several shrines to this garment - even today both Trier and Moscow claim to have it and its exposition excites huge frenzies of devotion amongst the various faithfuls.

By the 14th century Mary as the "clother" of Jesus was an established part of her role in the myth, as was her role as mother of course - traditionally depicted as mother and baby. These paintings simply combine the two.

She got up to other stuff while Jesus was a baby. Here she is clubbing any nasty that dared come near the little dote. These images were also interpreted during the Middle Ages to represent the "extermination of heresy".

Mary was the first wonder woman, she could do just about everything and whilst sitting around all day with Jesus on her lap. I often wondered, if Jesus was such a divine being capable of performing miracles, why he didn't help with it all a bit? The nuns were never best pleased with those sorts of questions and ideas, needless to say.

The first known knitting pattern to be published was in 1655, until then patterns were probably through word of mouth. I'm trying to find a copy of the pattern (if it exists) and more information, but I did come across this fascinating file on the re-creation of Eleanor of Toledo's crimson silk stockings from 1562. The devised pattern and image of the original are at the bottom of the pages. http://arts.atenveldt.org/Portals/arts/Articles/knit.pdf

I find it odd, that during the Tudor period, knitting as a profession was dominated by men and up until they later deemed women could knit also. Especially after all those Medieval depictions of women knitting.

Men dominated nearly all of the trades in medieval Europe. “When knitting reached its zenith during the
Elizabethan and Tudor periods, it was again men who created the magnificent multicolored garments and
carpets, the completion of which was a requirement for memberships in the professional knitting guilds
that marked this era.”3
“The exact origins of the craft of knitting are unknown … In the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries,
the formation of Knitting and Hosiery Guilds in Europe brought high standards of craftsmanship
and design. In order to become a Master Knitter the apprentice was obliged to serve for six years,
three spent learning and three spent travelling, before spending thirteen weeks producing his
‘Masterpieces’. These were:
a) a carpet, 4 ells square …
b) a beret or cap.
c) a woollen [sic] shirt.
d) a pair of hose with ornate clocks.”4
The list above was most likely based on Strasbourg statutes of 1605.5 By the end of the 16th century
women were knitting. “At Winchester in 1578 the House of Correction articles provided that women
should spin and knit.

On one episode of The Flintstones, Wilma Flintstone was knitting. She had knitting needles and yarn. Her yarn was attached right to the sheep. Wilma kept repeating, "Knit one, pearl two." as she knitted.

FL .. I do seriously advise you not to mock the ResHis knitters as they are a formidable force to be reckoned with ... lets face it, knitting is just about the only thing ID, Ferval and Priscilla have ever fully agreed on.

But I also earnestly advise you to look up Les Triconteuse, ... a name which means simply 'the knitters' in French ..... but also, and rather more specifically, it refers to those ladies who, during the Revolution, turned up every day to knit, watch and applaud, while the condemned were led to the guillotine. Accordingly it was also wise not to mess with them.

I can remember as a child (sorry if this appears earlier in the thread and I've not read back far enough) doing tubular or "French" knitting (as we called it in my neck of the woods) using an old-fashioned wooden sewing reel with four (small) nails knocked into the top of it.  Nowadays of course sewing reels are made of plastic so there are commercially available knitting "looms" or "dollies".  French knitting grew so slowly and was so thin that I wasn't that enthusiastic about it really.  My knitting done on two needles tends to grow slowly so I tend to use crochet if I want to make a garment (by a means other than sewing).  I'm doing some crochet at the moment because I cut out some pieces to make gloves (using the turkey claw - or without a gusset - method) and when I sewed the gloves together they were too small so I'm crocheting around the outside boundary to make the pieces larger.

ID I have known some blonde Jewish ladies though I haven't asked if they were natural blondes or not.

Yes indeed MM, an offended Res His contributor wielding a pair of no 5's can do a lot of damage.

I made those 'rat's tails' as well, LiR, but I never quite knew what to do with them, the only option seemed to be coiling them into table mats which were admired, put away and never reappeared.

Gosh now you mention it, they do look like "rat's tails" don't they, Ferval?  I did an online search and found a blog entry http://www.domesblissity.com/2013/08/22-things-to-do-with-french-knitting.html which shows various items made from French knitting.  The only one I really like is the toy octopus' tentacles. It's a bit too time consuming for me really when one can plait or crochet a strand a lot more quickly (well I can - there may be some really fast French knitters out there). Some of the shop-bought (well I think they're shop-bought) French knitting appliances look a bit like a circular version - only  with a hole in the middle of the board- of a childhood (well from my childhood though I think adults played it too) game where one moved small pegs with the aim of having just one peg left in the centre of the board.  I can't for the life of me remember the name of that game.

I liked French knitting but like Ferval I never knew what to do with it.  And I probably got sick of it before it got long enough anyway.

I haven't done
any knitting recently - not sure if I still can.  The only knitting I have done in the last twenty years has been a jersey/top for each of my four grandsons.

I find that making small items can be soothing.  I was somewhat worried when my haemoglobin count plummeted a few months ago before I had the "coeliac" diagnosis.  (Small) hand sewing projects and knitting/crochet ones I find can be beneficial.  Having a go at various crafts was one of the things I meant to do in my retirement but of course I've not done as much as I intended to.

Getting back on topic I suppose modern commercial machines that knit in the round are based (roughly) on French knitting.  If anyone is interested the information about the machine starts at about 1.09 - before that it's an advert for the stuff the company makes.

Edited to summarise.

Looking back at this thread, ID (whose posts are sadly missed - by me at least) mentioned that French knitting (corking, knitty Nancy whatever one likes to call it) was used to make cord.  I mentioned on another thread recently that I had been looking into medieval finger plaiting.  I could perhaps make myself some cord for my slacks (that need a replacement (fake) drawstring) and the pull-over my head water repellent* cape thing-y where the cord through the hood casing has worked loose.  Or there is the medieval-style (though some people say it's been around since the time of the Vikings) lucet tool which has two prongs.  I'm sure Res Historians are familiar with it.  I don't have one of those but I think it can be done on the index finger and the thumb (maybe that inspired the shape of the tool?) or there may be one on Ebay. It makes a cord anyway.  Another skill for me to be a Jill (or a dabber in) of but certainly not a mistress.

Looking upthread - I've made a couple of pairs of sewn socks - nothing worthy of mention on the Great British Sewing Bee though.  One lot (made of some cloth with a bit of stretch left over from something else) alas "got the moth" so now I have one sewn sock to add to my collection of odd socks.

* The cape is okay for showers but when the serious rain starts it can become waterlogged if I am outside for a prolonged period of time.  I believe there are preparations which can be used to waterproof or re-proof outer garments however.

Yes LiR, French knitting or whatever you want to call it...I learned it on the nunschool together with my sister...six years old...




Our's was with four nails instead of the "things" shown on the image...

PS. ...and for the cape...what about such a spray can with stuff to make leather and fabric "impermeable"...?

Kind regards from Paul.

I wonder what French people call "French knitting".  It seems there are some "knitting looms" - using the same idea as the knitting Nancy only much bigger on which one can do large projects.  It would probably confuse me to try this style of knitting now (i.e. spool knitting) but some people say this style of knitting can be suitable for people who find knitting the conventional way painful.  https://knittingboard.com/afghan-loom/  I was surprised to learn that there is more than one way of undertaking conventional knitting (with two needles) though the results look similar whatever method is used.  For instance some people do 'lever' knitting where the needle held by the non-dominant hand is held under the arm or in a belt and the dominant hand/arm does all the work.  It's supposed to be fast but I'll probably stick to the method using two hands that I know, not that I do a vast amount of sewing these days. Oh and welcome back, Paul.

One name for the small spool loom when it is in a doll form (four nails or pegs), namely the 'knitting Nancy' made me think of 'nitty Nora'.  To be fair, school nurses did (I suppose they still have nurses visit schools periodically?) other things beside examine kids' hair for nits but in some parts of the country the a slang name for the school nurse was 'Nitty Nora the bug explorer'.  The similarity between an alliterative slang name for a school nurse and for a spool knitting loom is of course quite co-incidental.

I didn't know that making Meccano models was still an active pastime.  The person who made the models in the linked video is from Australia I believe so maybe Meccano kits are obtainable there.  The man has made some working Meccano French knitting models.

Very nice little gadgets - but similar bits to make sweaters might fill the front room. Knitting machines are very boring.  

Hand weaving though is awesome. In a really remote part of the sub continent  along with a famed Belgian weaver  friend- very arty crafty lass - she wove metal too - we were both awe struck by long looms for making of woven charpoy covers with intricate patterns. In the corners of several weaving  huts were stacked the rotting looms of - so the weavers said - of  the old patterns made by elders that were too complicated for anyone to set up and use now. And what they were doing was incredible enough. I bought some lengths of this Kes and still ponder the skills used in its making.

The weaver of it said he was packing it in at the end of the month to work in a cement factory because it paid better. Sometimes you can only weep at the mess the world is in.

Jacquard loom from the early 19th century. The loom is controlled by information punchcards visible on the right:

Wiki:

Joseph Marie Jacquard saw that a mechanism could be developed for the production of sophisticated patterns. He possibly combined mechanical elements of other inventors, but certainly innovated. His machine was generally similar to Vaucanson's arrangement, but he made use of Jean-Baptiste Falcon's individual pasteboard cards and his square prism (or card "cylinder"): he is credited with having fully perforated each of its four sides, replacing Vaucanson's perforated "barrel". Jacquard's machine also contained eight rows of needles and uprights, where Vaucanson had double row, a modification that enabled him to increase the figuring capacity of the machine. In his first machine, he supported the harness by knotted cords, which he elevated by a single trap board

Priscilla wrote:

In a really remote part of the sub continent  along with a famed Belgian weaver  friend- very arty crafty lass - she wove metal too ...

Weaving or knitting metal wires is a key part of the industrial process to 'fix' atmospheric nitrogen as ammonia, which is the crucial first step in the manufacture of artificial fertilizers (the Haber–Bosch process). This process is primarily why the world can still, just about, feed itself, even though the world population has almost quadrupled over the past century since Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch published their work. That's not to say that the resulting population explosion has been an unqualified 'good thing' ... but at least think of all the billions of people who would have either starved to death or more likely just never have been born (that's myself included and probably you too) had the Haber-Bosch chemical reaction not been discovered.

Anyway, the Haber-Bosch process requires platinum as a catalyst. I used to work for a major platinum (and gold) refiner and precious metal manufacturer, for whom a big part of our business was manufacturing platinum cloth for use in ammonia plants throughout the world. This cloth was woven on fairly standard textile looms, suitably modified in a few places to handle metal wire rather than softer natural fibres, but essentially with the same array of fixed warp threads and the weft thread carried on a flying shuttle, thus producing long sheets of woven metal cloth up to several metres across. Later we introduced knitted cloth, again essentially using simply-modified industrial knitting machines.

In the Haber-Bosch process the platinum acts as a catalyst, that is it facilitates the reaction but is not itself consumed. The speed of the reaction is dependent on the available surface area of the metal - hence why it is used as a very fine mesh - and indeed the efficiancy of the whole process generally increases with time as the metal wires slowly recrystalise, thereby becoming rougher, resulting in an increase in the surface area, ... until they have recrystallised so much that the wires weaken and then break and the whole mesh starts to physically fall apart. At that point the reactor is shut down and the mesh replaced - with the old one going to be refined (typically with almost the original weight of platinum being recovered) and to eventually be remade into a new mesh. Because the reaction is dependent on the available surface area of the platinum catalyst, we found that a knitted cloth, with its more open structure and fewer warp-weft contact points, was much more efficient than regular woven cloth, in terms of ammonia synthesis, as well as being more forgiving to mechanical stresses when being fitted into place and in subsequent use. It's over two decades since I left the business however I expect nearly all such ammonia production worldwide now uses knitted, rather than woven, platinum cloth.

As a thread material platinum wire makes a perfectly strong and flexible, if rather expensive, cloth (and additionally it has the advantage that any snapped threads or larger tears can be simply and seamlessly welded, rather than needing the individual broken threads to be laboriously tied and knotted). Once, for a promotional gimmick at a jewellery fair (we used to manufacture precious metals for all sorts of uses: jewellery, coinage, catalysts, dentistry, thermocouples, laboratory-ware etc.) we made an ornate wedding dress entirely out of platinum cloth. The plan was for the model to parade down the cat-walk as in a regular fashion show ... unfortunately platinum has a density nearly twice that of iron and so the whole dress, with its train and elaborate bodice, weighed something like 50 kgs. The wee slip of a lass didn't so much as sashay seductively but rather staggered, as though she was wearing a full suit of armour. However, since she was wearing well over a million pounds worth of precious metal, she still caused a stir.

Thank you MM. What interesting stories one learns here everyday. At least interesting for someone as I am.
Kind regards, Paul.

That was indeed a sad story about the weaver who found working in a cement factory more profitable than practising his craft.  One lady who taught me shorthand and typing had a knitting machine but she had four young children at the time so maybe it was worth her while to use such a device.  I'm a slow knitter.  I'd been looking at some of the knitting mills with a crank handle wondering if it would speed things up for making socks - it would have to be one of the larger size ones though.  I looked at a video which was about a compendium of circular knitting machines presented by the "Ewe University" channel.  I thought it was going to be about the plastic knitting spools but it was about commercial knitting machines.  The lady went back as far as William Lee's stocking frame of 1569 (that wasn't circular of course).  The presentation was from an American point of view so I don't know if the points covered would also have applied to the UK.  Seemingly, commercial circular knitting machines for socks although they existed before came into their own during World War I because soldiers needed changes of socks to try to avoid trench foot. During the depression some women used metal sock machines to run sock businesses from home but then in World War II people were asked to donate their machines so the metal could be used for the war effort so there is a shortage of antique machines of this type.  In the USA the Erlbacher family run a business making metal circular knitting machines - I think for people who use them in small businesses rather than as a hobby tool.  They looked (to me at least) nice machines but the cheapest model (they are made to order) cost something in excess of a thousand American dollars so unless I win the lottery I won't be buying one.

I might watch this on the i-player BBC Two - Inside the Factory, Series 6, Socks

Firtling about on t'internet I came across something called 'arm knitting' - knitting with chunky yarn but using one's arms instead of needles.  Did that go on back in time immemorial or is it a newish fad, does anyone know?  One place advocated knitting in this manner with 'tops' which I believe is wool that is not fully spun, but wouldn't that felt when it was washed. Apparently you can buy yarn with loops already prepared so you can knit without needles or loom.  I'll stick with knitting needles I think.  'Finger knitting' has been around for donkeys' years of course but it's usually used by young children

I know crochet isn't knitting but I came across a variation of crochet sometimes known as "Shepherd's knitting" (which term is also used by some folk for Tunisian crochet, where the stitches are worked in rows using an extra-long crochet hook, yes these terms get confusing, I know).  Anyway, the form of Shepherd's knitting which isn't also known as Tunisian crochet does have various aliases, Dutch knitting, pjoning and Bosnian crochet to mention but three.  It has its own special hook (they tend to be expensive though I have seen some plastic ones on ebay which are more economical).  What sets it apart from ordinary crochet is that it is made up of variations of the slip stitch rather than other crochet stitches.  It looks like it might be fun though I have read that slip stitch crochet (another name for it) tends to grow more slowly than conventional crochet.  I find that for me crochet grows more quickly than knitting so the fact of it growing slowly does make me wonder whether it would be a useful way of spending my time to endeavour to get to grips with Bosnian crochet.

Has anyone who visits this site ever experimented with Bosnian crochet/Shepherd's knitting?  I know not everyone is struck on links but the article I am linking to explains the history of Bosnian crochet more clearly than I every could.  https://www.crochetconcupiscence.com/a-basic-guide-to-bosnian-crochet

The Bosnian crochet hook looks a bit like a sley hook used in weaving (no I'm not a weaver), or so someone observed.  I did wonder if a sley hook could be used instead of a Bosnian crochet hook if it would be less costly though the other idea I saw mentioned was to use a larger size conventional crochet hook (to maintain loose tension which is necessary for Bosnian crochet).

Thank you LIR for the crochet stuff above. Have used all of those methods in projects - no idea of names or history, of course because it is so easy to experiment. I make stuff all the time because of circumstances  spending more time in front of the box but do not want to be idle. This is taken off to a local charity shop. Having spent a huge amount on yarn in many shades, my work is let's say colourful  and sometimes in unusual patterns. Since I work with my hands without thinking too much -gawping at screen - all this stuff just seems to appear without much of an effort. Film of women making Guernseys, laces and such for extra income etc show this detached skill used - with really complex designs. The human mind is quite startling. I am often surprised by what is thus produced when a bag load is ready for delivery. I suspect that wood carvers work in much the same way.

You are more adept than I if you can make items without needing a pattern or template, Priscilla.  Still, if I had a bash at Bosnian crochet I might be able to "wing" it if I made a small item like say, gloves without finger tops (if it's cold enough for me to wear gloves indoors I need the gloves at least to have partial fingers).  I'm sure your donations to the charity shop are much appreciated. In one of the local churches a lady was asking for donations of wool so that she could knit hats for the homeless.

I tried the Bosnian crochet technique and I ended up unwinding it all. The fact that I used yarn which had already been knitted with and then I decided I didn't like the project and unwound it may not have helped.  I'll try again when I feel more in the mood - and have some decent yarn.  Mind you, I bought a few things (not just for knitting) to do during the Covid quarantine and I haven't got round to them all yet.

Anyway, today I am resting again.  My back has been improving but on Thursday I took some washing to the launderette and then yesterday I had an appointment at the doctors' surgery and I'm achy once more.  The Crochet Crowd is a YouTube channel I sometimes use for inspiration (they cover knitting too) and I've used a few of their patterns when knitting dishcloths.  My knitting of dishcloths is sporadic - it's not like there's one hot off the presses or even the needles every day.  I can sometimes go weeks without knitting.  The technique shown in this video of using yarn with pre-formed loops is not a new concept per se but I'm not very familiar with it.  It looks interesting but then I wondered is it a bit gimmicky?  The chap in the video knows his stuff because I've seen videos where he teaches both needle and loom knitting techniques as well as crochet.  I thought his idea of marking the corners of his project with 'clothespins' was interesting.  I've always heard them called 'clothes pegs' - but it could be like gasoline and petrol, different words on the opposite side of the Atlantic.  Looking on the internet it seems it was an American who came up with the idea of the hinged clothespin or clothes peg.  But to get back to the knitting with pre-formed loops here is the video 

Watched the film to see what he did - clever ... but...... If I tried that I would make Shaun the sheep in no time.
Clever and a tad boring - brought me to thinking what a job it must have been to make those bead bags from  Victorian days onward and then those skull cap hats popular in the 20's/30's - and entire dresses even. And those nifty fingers were probably paid little.

Some workers in a factory shop  close by the Taj Mahal doing the (Petra Dura (sp?)  stone inlay work  -and who were descended from Italian trained families who had done the Taj work - told me that many went blind by the time they were thirty. They were not paid much either...... this conversation was in their language and they had much more to tell me as I questioned - but the owner overheard....I was then none to gently asked to leave the shop. One large table there would take another 5years to finish.......

What you say about low pay for craftsmen (and craftswomen) in days gone by is accurate I'm sure, Priscilla.

I imagine the loops are probably made on the yarn by machine nowadays.  As I say I have seen the man in the video doing more conventional knitting both on needles and on knitting looms as well as crocheting.

I take my hat off to the lady in this video who found a way of continuing knitting after she lost an arm to cancer.  She made (makes) use of a combination of the knitting belt technique used by Shetland knitters and the "Portuguese" knitting method where the yarn is put around the back of the neck to help provide the tension.   

If Priscilla sees this I know she's not a fan of domestic knitting machines but this one made me think it was worthy of Heath-Robinson and made me smile.

I'm interested in the technology behind machines though technology may sometimes be over my head.  I admire this YouTuber's ingenuity in coming up with this device though I'm not sure it can be called a "machine" as it isn't operated by a handle or a motor.  It's more like a knitting comb or knitting rake.