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 Celebrations for a royal wedding

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Caro
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PostSubject: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 09 Aug 2013, 09:10

The Botanic Gardens in Dunedin are 150 years old this year and the Otago Daily Times newspaper had an article about the first public event held there. It was for a tree-planting ceremony to mark the marriage of the Prince of Wales and the Danish Princess Alexandra on June 30 1863.
 
We might think royal weddings and royal babies are given over-the-top media and public attention nowadays, but the 19th century showed how it was really done. A public holiday was announced in Dunedin. the most populous NZ town of the time. The government contributed 500 pounds with the stipulation that no part of it was spent in illuminations (too many wooden houses). An organising committee of 61 men was formed and decided on a feast for school children, two oak trees be planted, the poor of Dunedin should participate in the general rejoicing. [One wonders if there was all that much for Alexandra to rejoice in really.] Then there was a ball, 'junketings at Vauxhall Gardens across the harbour, a wedding cake with gold rings,and a ceremonial roasting of a whole ox in the Octagon [equivalent to most cities' squares]. Flags were made, branches of fern and cabbage trees [how odd I should mention cabbage trees in two consecutive posts!] wound round verandahs and on house fronts and shop frontages, a procession before which workmen had to work by moonlight to clear the streets of mud. "The two oldest gardeners in the province were the bearers of the two sapling oaks which future generations will, it is hoped, look up as gigantic trees, living memorials of the events of the day." There were mounted police, highland pipers, school children, volunteer fire brigade people, Oddfellows members and the Ancient Order of Foresters, the town board, members of the legal profession, gentlemen on horseback and foot. The windows were filled with ladies waving their handkerchiefs, which resulted in 'musically crowing cheers of the school children'. The modern newspaper rather sardonically adds, "This is presumably when the children were not "trilling the National Anthem". The procession grew and the trees were duly planted but one did not survive a flooding, and the surviving one was transplanted, as was the rest of the garden to a more suitable spot. It doesn't say just how the poor people joined in these celebrations but I suppose they joined the procession.  And did only men walk to the gardens? It's not quite clear.  Surely 'children' included girls.

The ODT explains this excess of celebration by the fact that the settlement was only 15 years old at the time and people were a little homesick and wanted to show their Britishness. Seven and a half newspaper columns were dedicated to the event with the expectation they would be read in England and show the "strong and lasting attachment of the people of Otago - and of New Zealand, of which it is the wealthiest and most populous province - to the throne and to the empire." One speaker hoped that "when the last branch of the last survivor shall have fallen to the ground and become incorporated with its native soil - that then, and for ages afterwards the descendants of Albert Edward, Prince of Wales and Alexandra of Denmark may sit upon the throne, maywear the Crown and may sway the sceptre of England over a loving people." So far, so good. He hoped they would be known and respected as "The Royal Oak" and the survivor is.

One minor problem with the trees as a memorial is that it is generally thought the Royal Oak commemorates the garden's beginnings, and the marriage has been forgotten.
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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 09 Aug 2013, 13:14

But does the second ceremonially planted tree still survive, Caro? Can the current generation still, as was originally hoped,  "... look up [at these] gigantic trees, living memorials of the events of the day."? I hope it does still stand.

And of course this immediately begs the question: "what other great 'commemorative' trees are there?". I suspect there must be a great many worldwide, although the original reasons for them being planted might well now be lost from common memory.
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 09 Aug 2013, 21:45

Oh, I meant to ask something like your last question, MM.  Yes the tree is still standing and the article I read showed the reported dwarfed by it.  The article was published two months ago - it has taken me that long to get round to reading it; realising it looked interesting I cut it out, but only now have I actually read it.  I can't see that article online now, but here is one which shows the tree and talks of new commemorative celebrations for the gardens.  http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/215573/much-planned-botanic-gardens-150th

I did mention somewhere a line of trees planted in Otago which were a memorial to the soldiers killed in World War, er which? Two, I think.  But maybe One.  Several hundred of those still stand, but some have died or been chopped down.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 09 Aug 2013, 22:55

@Caro wrote:
One speaker hoped that "when the last branch of the last survivor shall have fallen to the ground and become incorporated with its native soil - that then, and for ages afterwards the descendants of Albert Edward, Prince of Wales and Alexandra of Denmark may sit upon the throne, maywear the Crown and may sway the sceptre of England over a loving people."
An obviously far-sighted speaker who even back in the 1860s appreciated that the UK was ultimately doomed. The irony of referring to 'the sceptre of England' to an audience in famously Scottish Dunedin takes some doing. That said - it's interesting to know that Dunedin was once the most populous town in New Zealand.

Talking about trees with royal associations then there is a plaque in the grounds of Taplow House beside the River Thames near Maidenhead which reads:



"TULIP TREE (Liriodendron Tulipfera)
Originated: South East Canada to Mid West United States of America
Introduced to Great Britain in 1650

Estimated date of planting within grounds: 1770-1775

Largest recorded specimen:
Height 35 metres, Girth 5.8 metres, at Taplow House, Taplow, Bucks.
This Tree Believed to be planted by Queen Elizabeth I"

(Yes - I know)
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Caro
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 09 Aug 2013, 23:38

But how has this anachronistic statement about Elizabeth managed to put there? Or have I misunderstood something?

Quote :
it's interesting to know that Dunedin was once the most populous town in New Zealand.

Courtesy of the gold mining rush in Central Otago which brought miners from California usually via Australia in droves.  I've just read a sentence in the book I am reading called The Making of New Zealanders which says this addition to the NZ population has been undervalued.  Ron Palenski was talking about the effect of sport and It was clear the imperial sporting template did not fit all of Britain's colonies...A contributing factor, and one that in not considered in Anglocentric histories which recount Britain as the centre of a ripple effect that enveloped the Empire, was the gold strike in the Coromandel area of the North Island and in Nelson, Otago and the West Coast of the South...In a sporting sense that blended with immigrants from Britain to create a sporting environment that came to be markedly different from that for which the well-educated British may have hoped."  said: ie it was much more democratic and played by gentry and common folk together.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Sat 19 May 2018, 12:51

@Caro wrote:
But how has this anachronistic statement about Elizabeth managed to put there?

It's another example of how (in some quarters at least) it's believed that making a 'royal connection' (no matter how tenuous) to an event or a place somehow makes it more historic. The results are sometimes hilarious or even absurd as above.

With regard to tulips (rather than to tulip trees) then I've been recently reading how the flowers first came to Western Europe from Turkey during the reign of Suleyman the Magnificent in the 16th Century. A generation later in the 1630s a veritable tulip mania would grip Holland and the flower would henceforth be popularly associated (in Western European minds at least) with that country.

And how about this for a post-script today:

'This week there has occurred in this city a most extraordinary event and one absolutely unprecedented in the history of the dynasty. His Highness has taken to himself as wife - a commoner and a foreigner. There is a public procession ... and much music and feasting. The houses are festooned with garlands ... and everywhere tumblers and jugglers. There is great talk about the marriage but none can say what it means.'

Letter to the head office in Genoa of the Bank of St George from the Constantinople branch on the occasion of the wedding of Suleyman the Magnificent to Roxelana of Ruthenia (a Christian born a serf in Poland) in 1533.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Tue 22 May 2018, 01:18

Well, the media did make incredible hype about this modern marriage, but here the first thing people asked anyone the day after was "Did you watch the royal wedding?" and in my small town at least the answer was "Yes".  Though we talked to my brother-in-law and he hadn't but then he also hadn't watched his formerly beloved Manchester United play in the FA cup final: he is not happy about the style of football they are now playing.

I like watching these events because I love (and always have since I was a very small girl, despite being tomboyish about everything else) looking at beautiful actresses (and others)in lovely clothes.  Like most people I thought Amal Clooney was the stand-out.  

Sorry I have got off history. I am also a bit peeved that this is described as the first time in the monarchy that a mixed blood person has joined the British royal family:  Lady Davina something married a man with Maori blood - they live very privately in New Zealand and have a son called Tane Mahuta (the name of the most famous tree, a kauri, in Aotearoa) and a daughter with Kowhai as a second name.  I had not heard about this till this wedding.  

And I am sure there must be more in the royal family's history.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Tue 22 May 2018, 21:36

As an aside, Caro, have a look to your Down thread if you want...

Kind regards from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Wed 23 May 2018, 18:32

I'm one of those people for whom the royal family are much like the weather - they are sort of just there.  Somebody mentioned on one thread about tugging forelocks - I grew my fringe out so don't have short hair at the front to tug  I think perhaps people were ready for something a  bit "feel good" and an excuse for a party.  I watched the highlights of the wedding - the couple did seem happy so I hope it lasts.  The goldfish bowl existence can't help. With regard to the Maori lady marrying into royalty or at least the aristocracy that Caro mentioned, there was a short item on the BBC World Service radio about Queen Caroline (I think George IV's wife) possibly being of part-African descent.  (I can't get away from the rumour mill even when I'm trying to avoid conspiracy theories).  With my luck somebody will probably have already commented on this but just in case anyone is interested here is the link.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p067wmbv
If I had been in the area I wouldn't have minded an opportunity to see round the chapel (from the historical building point of view).
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 12 Oct 2018, 12:42

I came here to comment fleetingly about having seen Princess Eugenie and her beau exiting the chapel and getting into the coach.  (Typing this in October some months after the Royal Wedding cited upthread).  I didn't catch it deliberately; I wanted to get the salient points of today's news but of course Princess E's wedding was featured.  From the short excerpt I saw I thought she looked happy and well turned out.  I'm not a fan of trains (as in dresses) or peplums or bustles in dresses in general though otherwise I thought the dress looked elegant in a subtle way.  (I'm not a great fan of from-frou - crumbs, I must be coming over like a real misery with all the things I don't like).

Reading again Caro's interesting first post on this thread I noticed mention of the Oddfellows.  There is an Oddfellows Hall in my hometown (nowadays rented out for functions - and at one time there was a weekly "Tums, bums and thighs" exercise class going on there - presumably to get rid of flab in said areas).  I came across one person who thought that the Oddfellows were Freemasons under another name (same person thought that about the Lions as well).  I had a Catholic education and there the Freemasons were the "bad guys".  I never particularly thought the Oddfellows were Freemasons though. The local Lions do collections for charity I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 12 Oct 2018, 19:35

I don't usually do royal commentary, but at todays' wedding ,... what was Anne wearing?



It rather looks as though she secretly keeps and eye on Reshistorica ... and so was wanting to follow the dish-of-the-day, Farci Poitevin ... otherwise known as stuffed cabbage leaves


Last edited by Meles meles on Fri 12 Oct 2018, 22:36; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 12 Oct 2018, 22:12

@LadyinRetirement wrote:
I came here to comment fleetingly about having seen Princess Eugenie and her beau exiting the chapel and getting into the coach.  (Typing this in October some months after the Royal Wedding cited upthread).  I didn't catch it deliberately; I wanted to get the salient points of today's news but of course Princess E's wedding was featured.  From the short excerpt I saw I thought she looked happy and well turned out.  I'm not a fan of trains (as in dresses) or peplums or bustles in dresses in general though otherwise I thought the dress looked elegant in a subtle way.  (I'm not a great fan of from-frou - crumbs, I must be coming over like a real misery with all the things I don't like).

Lady,

in our Belgian press they spoke more about a competition...to be better than the former...and now I see, thanks to you having done research...she is only! a cousin (French: cousine. There you see in the word that it is about a girl. In German as in French and in English too you have the whole panoply: German: Cousin-Cousine and Neffe-Niece but not in Dutch (in our Flemish dialects, we have however the word "kozijn" and "neef" but for the females it is all : "nicht" as in Dutch)) and with a wine trader...but yes it has to be someone...

As for the competition...I prefer the middle one...and in my personal case for once the "clothes don't make the woman" (Dutch expression: de kleren maken de man and from a quick research on google indeed the same in English: the clothes make the man)


But have to say those royal brothers have not a bad choice. And for Eugenie: to be honest: she is not a bad girl too...
Hmm, I ask you...am I now the dirty oldie looking to a beauty contest?
Kind regards from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 12 Oct 2018, 22:47

No, I don't think so, Paul. I don't know why the modern idea is that no man is supposed to openly admire beautiful clothes and women.  Surely designers are expected to? And I like to talk to my husband about the figures and style of women (and men).

I did admire Princess Eugenie for not covering her scar.  I hadn't realised she had such a serious operation when she was 12.  Some things are kept private even with royalty.  Or at least not dwelt on. I also love the way the actress Amanda Redman doesn't hide her badly burnt arm, which I gather kept her in hospital for months if not years.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Fri 12 Oct 2018, 23:32

@Caro wrote:
No, I don't think so, Paul. I don't know why the modern idea is that no man is supposed to openly admire beautiful clothes and women.  Surely designers are expected to? And I like to talk to my husband about the figures and style of women (and men).

I did admire Princess Eugenie for not covering her scar.  I hadn't realised she had such a serious operation when she was 12.  Some things are kept private even with royalty.  Or at least not dwelt on. I also love the way the actress Amanda Redman doesn't hide her badly burnt arm, which I gather kept her in hospital for months if not years.


Caro,

have a lot to comment, especially about the badly burnt arm...but too late overhere...already half past midnight...see you tomorrow...

Kind regards from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Tue 16 Oct 2018, 12:44

@Meles meles wrote:
I don't usually do royal commentary, but at todays' wedding ,... what was Anne wearing?



It rather looks as though she secretly keeps and eye on Reshistorica ... and so was wanting to follow the dish-of-the-day, Farci Poitevin ... otherwise known as stuffed cabbage leaves

When I lived in London I could sometimes get tinned stuffed vine leaves (main stuffing ingredient was rice) - not so much where I live now - though I suppose even I could improvise and stuff a cabbage leaf or two.  Actually I didn't remark Anne so much but more Fergie.  I thought most of Fergie's outfit was fine - green does suit her - but what the heck was that sort of tail coming out of the hem of her dress.  I must admit I'm not a fan of asymmetric hemlines generally - hi-lo hems or slanted hems or whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: Celebrations for a royal wedding   Yesterday at 22:15

@Caro wrote:
No, I don't think so, Paul. I don't know why the modern idea is that no man is supposed to openly admire beautiful clothes and women.  Surely designers are expected to? And I like to talk to my husband about the figures and style of women (and men).

I did admire Princess Eugenie for not covering her scar.  I hadn't realised she had such a serious operation when she was 12.  Some things are kept private even with royalty.  Or at least not dwelt on. I also love the way the actress Amanda Redman doesn't hide her badly burnt arm, which I gather kept her in hospital for months if not years.

Caro,

"I did admire Princess Eugenie for not covering her scar.  I hadn't realised she had such a serious operation when she was 12.  Some things are kept private even with royalty.  Or at least not dwelt on. I also love the way the actress Amanda Redman doesn't hide her badly burnt arm, which I gather kept her in hospital for months if not years"

I looked first to the context of the story of both Princess Eugenie and Amanda Redman.
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2018101263383/princess-eugenie-scar-royal-wedding/






But now I see the reason for what she did as a kind of a mission and an example for the youth:
"but it's a lovely way to honour the people who looked after me and a way of standing up for young people who also go through this," Eugenie said. "I think you can change the way beauty is, and you can show people your scars and I think it’s really special to stand up for that. So that's one really important one."

But what I wanted to mention to you, was another way of acting of invalids. Nearly obliging you to show compassion and to command nearly the people as in a wheelchair to got out of the way, because you are the invalid and they are "obliged" to show you respect. I myself push the wife many times in a wheelchair and will always care that she don't do it in that manner.

No, I liked our American buschauffeur, who drove us the whole way from New York to Miami with a bus of "Bus&Car" (made at Bruges Belgium)...and one night when he, my father and I "sat" in the Budweiser (I have still a photograph of it with the pile of empty cans), he showed his left leg and let us knock on it...whole plastic...and we hadn't seen it during the whole journey...just to say that he wanted not to oblige people for compassion, as it now was as it was and he had to live with it...

Kind regards from your friend from the Northern half, Paul.
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