A discussion forum for history enthusiasts everywhere
 
HomeHome  Recent ActivityRecent Activity  FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  SearchSearch  

Share | 
 

 Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
LadyinRetirement
Censura


Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 14:41

Are you saying I need to learn medieval French, German and Italian etc (and revise Latin) to access the primary sources in person, Temp?  I don't know if the 60-something brain is up to it; though it is said that language studies help keep the brain active.   Of course even then I might bring MY preconceived ideas into the mix and think like a person who has lived in the 20th/21st centuries rather than in medieval times.
Back to top Go down
Anglo-Norman
Consulatus
avatar

Posts : 278
Join date : 2012-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 14:48

LadyinRetirement, I once asked an historian I know in passing for advice on where to look for information on a particular subject. He thought for a moment, and then opened his reply with, "How's your Medieval French?"
Back to top Go down
Temperance
Virgo Vestalis Maxima
avatar

Posts : 5745
Join date : 2011-12-30
Location : United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 14:58

@LadyinRetirement wrote:
  Of course even then I might bring MY preconceived ideas into the mix and think like a person who has lived in the 20th/21st centuries rather than in medieval times.

Of course you would - it's inevitable.

As for your other question - we are all dependent on the translators - and that of course is another can of worms.

Back to top Go down
LadyinRetirement
Censura
avatar

Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 15:27

@Anglo-Norman wrote:
LadyinRetirement, I once asked an historian I know in passing for advice on where to look for information on a particular subject.  He thought for a moment, and then opened his reply with, "How's your Medieval French?"

AN, I did a couple of years at Birkbeck College well over 30 years ago and we studied some of Aucassin et Nicolette and Yvain then.  I didn't finish the course and have forgotten practically everything I learned.  Temp is also right that I would bring my own ideas into play even if I didn't want to.  This might be somewhere to start with the medieval French I suppose.  
Back to top Go down
LadyinRetirement
Censura
avatar

Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 15:31

On a lighter note, hopeless addict of Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire that I am, I like them despite them being somewhat flawed.  I didn't notice it myself but someone else mentioned that in the first book/first season of the show a will was made and in both versions there were no witnesses.  The story is loosely based on the War of the Roses (and also took inspiration from Maurice Druon's The Accursed Kings plus some random inspiration from other periods of history).  I'm pretty sure that for a written will, especially for that of a noble, there would have been witnesses in both medieval France and England.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
avatar

Posts : 2701
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 21:22

@Temperance wrote:
MM being "trundled" (perfect word!) up to Bamburgh Castle in his pushchair - what a lovely image!

The Grace Darling Museum was still there, MM, and still shut. The notice last Wednesday informed us: "Closed due to weather conditions". To be fair, it was a bit blowy that day, with Storm Ali gusts of over 75mph...

Hermitage Castle is indeed a really frightening place. I have since read about the Redcap - and the "Wizard" Lord of Hermitage who consorted with him. I honestly think I would have died of fright had I been locked up alone within that fortress. It is a ruin inside, as you say,  but, yes, all the outer walls are intact and there is a door which the person at the ticket office locks at night. I hope he/she always checks that no one is still wandering about inside!

Primary sources - well yes - but the trouble is always the reader of the sources, however erudite and reliable he or she may seem to be. The postmodern dilemma. We all bring our own lives/ experiences/ cultural expectations to what we read and interpret historic events accordingly. I'm struggling at the moment to see John Knox's point of view - he was after all a truly great social reformer - but God, I bet Mary wanted to thump him - or worse laugh at him. Maybe she did - big mistake - never, ever laugh at men like Knox!

Temperance and LiR,

"Primary sources - well yes - but the trouble is always the reader of the sources, however erudite and reliable he or she may seem to be. The postmodern dilemma. We all bring our own lives/ experiences/ cultural expectations to what we read and interpret historic events accordingly. I'm struggling at the moment to see John Knox's point of view - he was after all a truly great social reformer - but God, I bet Mary wanted to thump him - or worse laugh at him. Maybe she did - big mistake - never, ever laugh at men like Knox!"

Wise words (in excellent English) Temperance and indeed that is the essence of the matter. Interpretation...we discussed it on the BBC nearly to dead as on Historum as overhere with nordmann...for instance about the reactions on an event: one has to nearly transpose oneself in the thinking world of that particular period and therefore it is difficult to make a value judgement (spelling? "waardeoordeel" in Dutch). And in my opinion it is not the role of a historian to judge.

"Are you saying I need to learn medieval French, German and Italian etc (and revise Latin) to access the primary sources in person, Temp?  I don't know if the 60-something brain is up to it; though it is said that language studies help keep the brain active.   Of course even then I might bring MY preconceived ideas into the mix and think like a person who has lived in the 20th/21st centuries rather than in medieval times."

Wise reaction too, LiR (in my humble opinion, the same for Temperance),
And to your last sentence I answered already to Temperance.
Yes translations in nowadays English are available for most sources about "serious" events, but as Temperance, nordmann and you and me will say, translation is also a difficult work as we have seen here many times on this Res Historica as a word or a context of the concerned time can have quiite another connotation as the same in identical modern English, not to speak of translations from other languages, for instance first in modern German and then in English...not to speak from the medieval Japanese of the 17th or was it the 18th century...

Kind regards to both of you from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
avatar

Posts : 2701
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 21:26

Addendum.

Sorry, hadn't read the later messages.

Regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
LadyinRetirement
Censura
avatar

Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sat 29 Sep 2018, 22:26

A very quick reply, Paul; don't worry your input on primary sources was interesting.  Apart from a translation into modern English of a primary source possibly having something lost "in translation", I find that the translations (not that I've looked at many) tend to be written in a very boring style.
Back to top Go down
LadyinRetirement
Censura
avatar

Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sun 07 Oct 2018, 15:20

Not 100% sure if this is the right thread but Temperance did mention upthread that she had visited some  sites in Scotland associated with Mary Queen of Scots.  I mentioned there are a couple of places linked to her that I could visit but I'd have to catch a bus.  Here somebody has sent a drone overhead Chartley Castle.  It is very much a ruin though it has been restored as much as possible but is on private land and therefore not open to the public.  
Back to top Go down
LadyinRetirement
Censura
avatar

Posts : 1371
Join date : 2013-09-16

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sun 07 Oct 2018, 15:28

Again, a drone flying over Tixall Gatehouse.  I remember when it had no roof, but some people bought it and "did it up" and now it is a hotel.  Tixall Hall went a long time ago - in the 19th century I think.  The mews (the group of dwellings) I think are fairly new (1980s or 1990s though there may be some that were servants' quarters).  My understanding is that mews at one time was another word for stables.  I really should know more as the village of Tixall is not that far as the crow flies from where I live.  Mary was imprisoned here for a couple of weeks before being taken back to Chartley and then Fotheringay.

Back to top Go down
Temperance
Virgo Vestalis Maxima
avatar

Posts : 5745
Join date : 2011-12-30
Location : United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   Sun 07 Oct 2018, 16:09

Chartley Hall was the place where some of the most distressing and dramatic scenes of Mary's life unfolded. The Babington plot was uncovered there.

Chartley belonged to the young Earl of Essex who had inherited in 1576. Essex was most put out when he was informed  that his property was being considered as a suitable prison for the Scottish queen: it was most definitely not an honour to have Mary as a "house guest/prisoner". Chartley, ironically, had seen happier, more "chivalrous" days: Elizabeth had visited the place with Leicester, and had actually been a guest there after her famous stay  at Kenilworth in 1575. Her hostess at Chartley was the beautiful Lettice Knollys who was at that time Lady Essex. She was possibly already having an affair with Leicester right under the queen's nose. (Leicester and Lettice were secretly married in 1578.)

There had been real romance at Chartley; it was at Chartley that Philip Sidney first laid eyes on the teenage Penelope Devereux (later poor Penny Rich), "the inspiration of his muse" and the lovely Stella of his sonnets.

Chartley, however, held no romance for Mary. She was utterly miserable there. Her gaoler was Sir Amyas Paulet, a self-righteous and judgmental man who had no sympathy or understanding for a woman like the Queen of Scots. He was a fundamentalist Protestant, and in his attitude to her religious beliefs he showed the total incomprehension of the bigot, a humourless man of the type who can see nothing fine or sincere in the convictions of those with whom they do not agree. Mary's despairing description of him of him echoes down the centuries: "One of the strangest and most farouche men I have ever known."


* Farouche  - wild, savage, intimidating, sullen


Last edited by Temperance on Tue 09 Oct 2018, 07:55; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?   

Back to top Go down
 

Does accuracy in films matter to audiences?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Res Historica History Forum :: The history of expression ... :: The Arts-