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 The Elephant in the Room.

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Vizzer
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 20 Jul 2018, 21:25

@nordmann wrote:
And so the stupidity continues ....

As does the very low level of public discourse. This morning, for example, BBC One's Breakfast program was reviewing the papers and one of the presenters held up an article to camera and said that it related to:

"Leo Varadkar the Irish prime minister saying that you can't have your cake and eat it. This is apparently what he's been reported saying after a cabinet meeting. This is the visit of Theresa May saying that you can't take back our waters. This is all about the border between over the Irish Sea or potential border between the landmass over in Northern Ireland and Ireland and the UK and the rest of England and Scotland."

So that cleared that up.
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Islanddawn
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sun 22 Jul 2018, 06:47

@Temperance wrote:
@Islanddawn wrote:
The most unbearable of the whole tournament was the 'it's coming home' sillyness and it was such a relief when it wasn't coming home after all. The gloating and nationalistic frenzy would have been worse than that of the London Olympics, simply too much for anyone to swallow.

Absolutely. You wouldn't get the cool and rational French indulging in any such  "silliness"!











Smile


Not sure what France have to do with it Temp, unless you are saying that being stupid is ok because they do it too?

But what you are showing are celebrations after winning, no?  Not claiming to have won before you've even reached the second round, which is what the daft 'it's coming home' was doing.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sun 22 Jul 2018, 08:19

Indeed, ID - as we are instructed in "The Words of King Lemuel of Massa, Which his Mother Taught Him", it is a foolish man who tries to eat the omelette before the hen has laid the egg.

May I point out that on 24th June (how far away that glorious day now seems) I posted this in the Bar:



We must keep things in perspective, chaps: it was only Panama. The way everyone's carrying on here you'd think we'd just beaten Brazil 6-1 in the actual final -  at the Estádio Nacional de Brasília.



But to be absolutely serious - if anyone these days from Brexitland can be taken seriously - rather than fretting so much the everlasting Brexit negotiations (it is only Brexit, as one BBC commentator rather strangely put it), shouldn't we all be worrying about the two madmen in Washington and Moscow? Jungian shadows, the collective unconscious, political manipulation and all that stuff?  Not to mention the Orwellian power blocks that are developing. Europe is terrified of Russia - and rightly so...







And in the Orwellian nightmare that we see taking shape, the Orwellian "Ignorance is strength" - makes for a lovely motto. Perhaps Trump could ask Her Majesty to give him a coat of arms with that emblazoned on it.

EDIT: Politics and the English Language (1946) is an essay by George Orwell. The work focuses on political language, which, according to Orwell, "is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind". Orwell believed that the language used was necessarily vague or meaningless because it was intended to hide the truth rather than express it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Sun 22 Jul 2018, 22:00

Temperance,

"But to be absolutely serious - if anyone these days from Brexitland can be taken seriously - rather than fretting so much the everlasting Brexit negotiations (it is only Brexit, as one BBC commentator rather strangely put it), shouldn't we all be worrying about the two madmen in Washington and Moscow? Jungian shadows, the collective unconscious, political manipulation and all that stuff?  Not to mention the Orwellian power blocks that are developing. Europe is terrified of Russia - and rightly so... "


Temperance,

first of all about the map. Can you give the source? Because it can solve the possible bias...
I see here the small dot of the British Isles connected to "Oceania"? Isn't it rather connected to Western Europe? Spanish and Portuguese America not connected to the US? More second world countries? Southern Africa more third world than second world?
I started an informal exchange with Dirk Marinus (and invited him here) about  the new world power circles.
I asked him: Europe including the British Isles the new Italy of the world? The world as in the Cold War divided in two powerblocs: the US and SSSR, while Russia is there again. But now a new actor (factor): the third party:China, which can act as a balance between the two? I think Russia is not capable to challenge the whole world as the US now do? Too less people to man it all? And only China will gain from a conflict between the two powers, with Europe in the middle? And I am not sure if even the mighty US can hold it against the rest of the world? But about Japan, I think it will remain a close ally of the US, as it is afraid of his big neighbour China...Europe can perhaps as China act as a brooker between the two blocs? But Europe learned that it had no big power status anymore starting from the Suez crisis...and in the Yugoslavian civil war Europe made a mess of it and the US with Madeleine had to clean it up? Even in that local conflict they weren't able to stand their man...but the Americans brought then another bias in it by supporting the UCK and the greater Albania, with now Muslim power overthere?

Kind regards from Paul.
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 23 Jul 2018, 17:27

Copied the map from here, Paul:

Map of 1984



In George Orwell’s dystopian novel ‘1984’, the world is ruled by three superstates:



• Oceania covers the entire continents of America and Oceania and the British Isles, the main location for the novel, in which they are referred to as ‘Airstrip One’.
• Eurasia covers Europe and (more or less) the entire Soviet Union.
• Eastasia covers Japan, Korea, China and northern India.

Unfortunately, there’s not much ‘super’ to these states except their size. All three are totalitarian dictatorships. Oceania’s ideology is Ingsoc (English Socialism), Eurasia’s Neo-Bolshevism and Eastasia’s is the Obliteration of the Self (one imagines some kind of Buddhist-inspired fascism. If one can). These ideologies are very similar, but the people are not informed of this.

The three states are in a perpetual state of warfare – sometimes two against one, sometimes all three against each other. These wars are fought in the disputed territories, running from North Africa over the Middle East and southern India to Southeast Asia.

And yet…

And yet the war might just not even be real at all. It’s clear that the Oceanic media are one-sided and fabricate ‘facts’. A dissident book central to ‘1984’ suggests the two other powers may actually be a fabrication of the government of Oceania, which would make it the world government. Or, on the other side of the scale of thinkable alternatives: Airstrip One is not an outpost of a greater empire, but the sole territory under the command of Ingsoc, which fabricates eternal global war to keep its people permanently mobilised, scrutinised and on rations.


It's interesting that Orwell has the British Isles as a little, isolated dot on the edge of an opposing superstate. Russia appears to have swallowed up Europe - which is exactly what the EU is terrified might happen. The whole thing is a nightmare waiting to happen.
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Meles meles
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 23 Jul 2018, 18:00

Orwell's '1984' was of course first published in 1948 (NB the digits, and strictly while it was intended to appear in late 1948, publication was delayed and the first copies only appeared in early 1949) and was a contemporary critique of Britain's post-war, micro-managing government; with strict currency controls, oppressive media censorship, rationing of food and fuel, widespread shortages of non-rationed goods, and widespread and often invasive petty bureaucracy. At the same time in Germany, then still an occupied country, almost all rationing ended that same year, 1948, and the German economy - although still devastated by war but now finally freed from the stifling artificial economic constraints that had been imposed by the US - immediately started to boom. Seeing these clear economic benefits France rapidly followed Germany's lead by dropping all its rationing and currency controls (also in 1948).

Britain however chose to continue to enforce war-time austerity and rationing until 1954 (ie some 6 years after most other European economies). This action alone, IMO, probably only served to stifle the UK's post-war economy ... and the effects remained until at least the mid 1970s, when, in desparation and because it was nearly bankrupt, the UK finally decided to join he EEC.

And now it seems Britain wants to throw all that progress away and go back to the 1960s ... or is it the 1950s that you're hankering after?
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Mon 23 Jul 2018, 22:45

@Meles meles wrote:
Orwell's '1984' was of course first published in 1948 (NB the digits, and strictly while it was intended to appear in late 1948, publication was delayed and the first copies only appeared in early 1949) and was a contemporary critique of Britain's post-war, micro-managing government; with strict currency controls, oppressive media censorship, rationing of food and fuel, widespread shortages of non-rationed goods, and widespread and often invasive petty bureaucracy. At the same time in Germany, then still an occupied country, almost all rationing ended that same year, 1948, and the German economy - although still devastated by war but now finally freed from the stifling artificial economic constraints that had been imposed by the US - immediately started to boom. Seeing these clear economic benefits France rapidly followed Germany's lead by dropping all its rationing and currency controls (also in 1948).

Britain however chose to continue to enforce war-time austerity and rationing until 1954 (ie some 6 years after most other European economies). This action alone, IMO, probably only served to stifle the UK's post-war economy ... and the effects remained until at least the mid 1970s, when, in desparation and because it was nearly bankrupt, the UK finally decided to join he EEC.

And now it seems Britain wants to throw all that progress away and go back to the 1960s ... or is it the 1950s that you're hankering after?


Meles meles and Temperance,

now I see: Orwell...and I just wanted to start this evening my thread about Orwell for Nielsen...and I said in that thread that I never read "1984" from Orwell...hence my ignorance about "Oceania"...instead I saw Fahrenheit 451 from Truffaut an adaptation of Bradbury's novel of 1954...some similarities?...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451
But in the meantime Temperance, I presented you with my take on the contemporeous geopolitical situation Wink ....and you see how difficult it is to predict the future...but perhaps taht was not Orwell's purpose?...

Meles meles, thank you very much that you again reiterates the rationing in Europe, a subject that we both already discussed in depth...as with examples from your mother and father...

And now I am again too late for the Orwell thread for Nielsen Sad ...tomorrow early up to work in refurbishing an appartment...

Kind regards to both from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 31 Jul 2018, 07:05

A very good cartoon by Martin Rowson in today's online version of 'The Guardian' brilliantly depicting the UK's current Brexit government as The Bash Street Kids, from the popular 1960s/70s children's comic 'The Beano':



... we really ought to have a thread about political cartoons - there have been some absolutely first-class ones lately, but then the current political situation, and not just in Britain, is particularly rich in suitable material.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 31 Jul 2018, 08:48

Loved me some "Beano" on wet playtimes back in the day, MM.  I did mention the death of Leo Baxendale, the original author/illustrator of the Bash Street Kids on the RIP thread last year.  David Sutherland drew at least some of the illustrations since 1961 though.  (Now am I really brainy and carry this information in my head or have I just had a quick decko* on Wikipedia).  The Bash Street Kids were apparently inspired by a Giles cartoon of kids coming out of school.

*"have a decko" - English slang expression for "have a look".
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 31 Jul 2018, 15:56

Love the Beano cartoon - especially Rees Mogg as Lord Snooty - brilliant!



My favourite cartoon in the past couple of weeks was the one in The Times the other day. It referred to the unfortunate incident in Downing St. last week when Palmerston, the amoral Foreign Office cat, snatched a little duckling from its mother and dismembered it in front of a group of horrified photographers and reporters. Here is the photographic evidence:






Then - alas -





Inspiration for this brilliant cartoon:





PS Larry the Cat (who was asleep at the time of the Downing Street duck massacre) has demanded Palmerston's removal after this "disgraceful incident", but Larry and his suggestions - however reasonable -  seem to be as ineffectual as those of his boss at Number 10.
   



Last edited by Temperance on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 09:20; edited 1 time in total
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Temperance
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Tue 31 Jul 2018, 16:01

Larry's tweet:


Larry the Cat‏ @Number10cat · Jul 24  

Unlike the PM, I’m willing to take action when my team steps out of line. Palmerston is being transferred to Antarctica following this disgraceful incident...


Larry is however right: the PM should pack the lot of them - Boris, Gove, Rees-Mogg and the other rebels - off to Antarctica. In their underwear. Better to be feared than loved - and our Prime Minister is neither. Bad position to be in.
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PostSubject: And so I came on the shortage of the   Wed 15 Aug 2018, 22:57

I wanted to put this on the Orwell thread, but perhaps it is better placed overhere.
About the recent trade wars between for instance the US and China, the US and Russia, the US and Europe, the US and Iran, lately beween the US and Turkey. Between Europe and Russia.
One thing which emerges in my opinion. The entity that starts the trade war has to be big enough to endure the counter measures from other countries? Turkey is too small an economy to counter a trade war. I am even not sure if a US is big enough to endure a long term economic isolation without proceding to the danger of a "real" war...I doubt if Europe and certainly not the UK is big enough to manage a kind of autarky policy...perhaps Russia with its big resources, but then the population is not big enough...nordmann's opinion would be appreciated...

And yes a lot is not "ethical" in the financial world, which is responsible for a lot of anomalies in the "social" world. I am so glad that the Tesla boss tackled the "shorters" that gangreen of the economies that push whatever to a high or to a low of the stocks even witout proof in the real economy...in former threads I asked already for some kind of guiding on speculation on the world market...even  a Europe isn't big eonough if the US and Japan don't agree and as I know the Americans...

And I agree fair trade is a laudable project...but I think the EU is right that one has to do some compartimenting...one can't absorb a third country economy within the frameworl of the own "compartiment" as the two economies differ too much and the only solution is to bring the involved country gradually on the same level as your own "compartiment", but as proven in the past the "social" level has to adapted also gradually to the receiving ecomomy...
Perhaps something similar to the rules about the isolating of one country to the introduction of biological diseases for contamination of plants, animals and humans...as in the UK and yes I saw this morning also in New Zealand...
I came to it when reading in a French language teletext on TV about an elogy on the "avocat" as some kind of fruit. I always thought that that was a laywer, but when looking on the "internet" it came out that the French "avocat" was also an "avocado".
And so I came on the article about avocados in New Zealand that can't be imported because of the fear for plant diseases. and now there is a shortage...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/world/asia/new-zealand-avocado-thefts.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-45169917

Kind regards from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Fri 17 Aug 2018, 23:45

Adding to the previous about New Zealand...

Saw today an article in the paper about the new restrictions proposed for foreigners on the local house market...
Found this about the case on "internet":
https://qz.com/1299734/foreigners-are-rushing-to-buy-property-in-new-zealand-before-law-changes/


Own folks first? I have the opinion that it is not that strong...and as I see it it is an international phenomenon...some places are highly valuable...and thus go the prices up...and as it is an international free market, some foreigners with money invest to seek for an higher return of their money...and as the prices go up it becomes interesting to refurbish older buildings to modern norms...or even as in Brussels demolish entire houses and rebuild new ones, as that is cheaper than refurbish old ones...however as in Bruges you have to let stay the front or even rebuild the house with the old equipment as staircases and all that...
The granddaugther living now in Zurich Switzerland...appartment for four residents: each one 1,500 Euro and for an old appartment...and she lived for 6 months in New York, there it was even worser...

Kind regards from Paul.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 23 Aug 2018, 07:06

Hi Paul,

I saw this a few days ago and didn't have time then to reply, but when I looked for it now, it took me a while to find it; it was only when I went to another thread that I saw you had mentioned it there.

NZ has very stringent rules on imports, being very dependent on its agriculture for exports and therefore its economy.  I did hear something about avocados being very expensive (though we had one just the other day, and my husband, who does all the shopping these days, keeps a very keen eye on prices). 

As regards the housing, the new Labour/NZ First/Green alliance has brought in stricter rules to curb the growing shortage of housing.  Some of this has been blamed on foreign ownership, though that may have been overstated.  Still, seeing reports of foreigners buying houses and not filling them with either themselves or tenants, but just waiting for the price to rise, does seem very odd. I did see a news item or an economist today saying it was the wrong time to bring this in, as house prices are cooling and we need migrant workers and somewhere for them to live.  (Though whether these very expensive houses would be used for workers is doubtful.)

Cheers, Caro.
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PostSubject: Re: The Elephant in the Room.   Thu 23 Aug 2018, 21:23

@Caro wrote:
Hi Paul,

I saw this a few days ago and didn't have time then to reply, but when I looked for it now, it took me a while to find it; it was only when I went to another thread that I saw you had mentioned it there.

NZ has very stringent rules on imports, being very dependent on its agriculture for exports and therefore its economy.  I did hear something about avocados being very expensive (though we had one just the other day, and my husband, who does all the shopping these days, keeps a very keen eye on prices). 

As regards the housing, the new Labour/NZ First/Green alliance has brought in stricter rules to curb the growing shortage of housing.  Some of this has been blamed on foreign ownership, though that may have been overstated.  Still, seeing reports of foreigners buying houses and not filling them with either themselves or tenants, but just waiting for the price to rise, does seem very odd. I did see a news item or an economist today saying it was the wrong time to bring this in, as house prices are cooling and we need migrant workers and somewhere for them to live.  (Though whether these very expensive houses would be used for workers is doubtful.)

Cheers, Caro.


Caro,

thank you very much for your reply and the comments, especially for the wise evaluation of the second paragraph.

Kind regards from Paul.
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