Well I'll come out of the closet and admit that I'm watching it, anyone else?

I was puzzled by those little blue and red flags that the villagers were waving at the wedding. Does anyone know what they represented? They weren't Union Jacks.

A bit disappointed in Shirley Maclaine though, I thought Maggie Smith made her appear a little second rate in the acting department.

Islanddawn wrote:

Well I'll come out of the closet and admit that I'm watching it, anyone else?

I am.

Good review here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2012/sep/16/downton-abbey-review-series-three?newsfeed=true

I am sure Nordmann won't be watching this nonsense, but I wonder what he and other Oirish folk make of Martin McGuinness, aka Tom the Chauffeur, who is now being won over by the sheer *decency* of the English nobs? He is even starting to dress like them, donning the "uniform of oppression" (posh clothes), as Sam Wollaston puts it so nicely.

I hate Julian Alexander Kitchener-Fellowes, or Baron Fellowes of West Stafford, as he's known to his mates down the pub. I'd like to punch him, and I am never, ever violent.

So why am I watching it? I don't know - must be one of my "unexplored issues".

Here he is, the smug *******.


PS I've searched for a good shot of the labrador's backside, but I can't find one anywhere.

He won't look so smug once he realises that his house is leaning... mining subsidence perhaps, or maybe it's just his own over-bearing corpulence.

Is that Julian Fellows' house? It looks a bit like the set from that Scottish series he was in (can't remember the name now) in which he played Lord Killwillie (sp?).

But I'm fairly indifferent about JF, I really don't know enough about him to judge.

Edit. I've remembered! Monarch of the Glen was the name of the series. With lots of pretend Scots and highlanders.

(Raises hand somewhat shamefacedly) I watched it. I didn't see any of series 1, a few of series 2 but didn't get into it at all however I saw the first of the latest series and enjoyed it in much the same way I enjoy Cadbury's chocolate: I know this is a cheap version of the good stuff but it's strangely comforting. I suspect I'll continue to watch unless something better's on offer.

Has anyone been watching the Ford Madox Ford?

What's Ford Madox Ford ferval?

I'm ever on the lookout for downloads.....

This ID, Parade's End http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/grace-dent-on-television-parades-end-bbc2-8113316.html on iplayer if you have devious ways of accessing it.

Very different from DA but I'm not entirely sure that Cumberbatch is the right man for it, I find his way of emoting a stiff upper lip and swallowing his emotions just a bit too literal (or visual), he looks like a child trying to get rid of a toffee when the teacher talks to him.

I haven't read the books but I'm told that Sylvia has been softened down a bit for modern sensibilities. I'm afraid if I was married to him I'd have to kill him. Less effort than all the affairs followed by Catholic guilt and celibacy.

Thanks ferval, I'm downloading the first 4 episodes now. Not iplayer though, have no idea how to go about accessing that but there are other ways to skin a cat, so to speak......

I hope Parade's End comes here - I have heard really good reports of it, and am looking forward to it. People's reactions were a little mixed re Benedict Cumberbatch, but generally favourable, I think. And very favourable to some of the other actors.

We will be watching the third series of Downton Abbey - when it gets here. My husband is rewatching the second series now. I drift in occasionally. I am not sure many actresses could hold a candle to Maggie Smith, ID - she is very good. Of course it's easier to look good when you get the best/funniest lines.

I thought the picture of Julian Fellows looked familiar, which seemed odd, since we don't get to see people like him on our television. But we did watch (and enjoy) Monarch of the Glen, mostly for me because of the main actor, who was a cutie.

Downton Abbey is but another 'soap.' In this case it jiggles impeccably presented talent into a web of unlikely story lines with predictable caricatures. Yet for a younger body of viewers than myself who have not been along the hackneyed path, this is real history.......... I was told so only this week by a nurse. She did not want to know that it was no more real than East Enders or Holby City. To some extent it has value. The settings are lush along with the entire researched parade of costume, venues and elaborate set dressing. If it introduces interest in related issues and also entertains then that is a benefit of TV.

ferv is right about the comforting choc notion - as long as one can sit back and let it flow...... too much thinking 'Good grief that's too much...' means you should switch channels. And I must stop trying to catch out cast eyeing the floor for their camera shot positions. I assume dogs don't always get this right.

Parade's Way is much the same with finely tuned characters each marching to the beat of their own drums in the social events and political circumstances of their time. I thought the daft army muddles in this weeks episode interesting - and probably and unhappily drawn from something like the truth.

Parade's Way - in the final episode, does Chris T buy a boat yard?

When I informed OH that I was downloading Parade's End, he tells me that it is beginning on tv here next month! "It has been advertised, didn't you see it?" He says. Shows how observant I am, Doh.

I agree though, it is high class soap and there is something wonderfully comforting in the predictability of these shows especially through the winter. Like some good chick lit to read when not feeling well. But, at least, we demand the very best quality rubbish in our viewing!

I love the clothes, well in the first two series of Downton anyway, most of them would be perfectly acceptable today.

Priscilla wrote:

...something like the truth.

Something like the truth indeed.

Ferval is right to mention confectionery - that's just what Downton Abbey is. I once used (on the BBC site) the word meringue to describe it, because the programme struck me as being a whipped-up concoction of sugary nothingness. Today I'll suggest that it is a marshmallow, a whopping, sink-into-me marshmallow, white and pink and sickly sweet. And, like all such gooey treats, it's dangerously compulsive - "moreish" is the dreadful word used these days for binge food, isn't it? Not good for us, but we just can't stop - and we keep coming back for more.

What a saccharine lie it all is - faked poshness, faked glamour and faked history. But it's the lie we've always fallen for in England, isn't it? The characters in shows like Downton Abbey and Upstairs Downstairs (and all those royal marriage fairy tales) - how we love 'em, and how desperately we need to believe that our English elite were/are really as they appear to us in these sagas: decent, dependable - above all - *dutiful*. Just like Her Majesty, in fact. OK, you get the odd black sheep (or two), the bad egg who lets the side down, sometimes rather badly, but they are great fun for us, the plebs, to watch on the tele (or even read about in the Daily Mail). And such bounders are quickly sorted out - they get a "dressing down", are made to apologise (even, in DA, to the bloody *Irish*, damn it, how's that for *real* decency?) and then are sent off to "get the job done" - which usually means fighting somebody somewhere.

Yes, they've got us sussed all right: the creator of DA and its producers would, it seems, have us believe that they are giving us back our heritage; they are helping us to appreciate what we nearly lost - what we nearly threw away. What, in fact, it means to be truly British. But could it be that our love affair with the folk up at the Big House (and their servants) is perhaps just a tiny bit sinister - a sign of the times? Changing times - a shift in the zeitgeist? Can it be that after decades of socialist (and feminist) nonsense, good old forelock tugging - knowing your place and being grateful if you've got a place to know - is staging a remarkable come-back? And the rest of the world, it seems, approves, is utterly fascinated, and wants to watch. Well, it's nearly as good as golden coaches rolling down the Mall. Everyone wants to cheer wildly and wave the little flags.

Drop the torch (wasn't that a great line)? Lord Grantham and Julian Fellowes? Never!

Jolly good show, well done and all the rest.

But no doubt (as I've been told) I'm overreacting - it's just a programme on the tele, for God's sake.

I've just started "Parade's End", having artfully avoided having to read it when I was young. I've recorded the programme, but I don't want to watch it until I've finished the book. I had a sneaky little look at the first five minutes though, last night.

"Parade's End" is no soap opera, although the BBC and Tom Stoppard may well have tried to turn it into one. Stoppard's certainly done that with his script for the new film version of "Anna Karenina". Classy, clever, glossy it is, but somehow missing something, I feel. I noted the Anna K. influence in the opening bit of "Parade's End" - Stoppard is obviously into trains at the moment. We've already seen - after about two minutes - Sylvia having wild sex (on the floor) with an immediate cut to a huge steam train which thunders, just like the Hogwart's Express, along the tracks, but which does not, thankfully, disappear (as a locomotive would no doubt do in a TV adaptation of a D.H. Lawrence novel) into some nasty black tunnel.

I won't say anything more until I've finished the book and watched the adaptation. But I'm already sick to death of the "class who administered the world" and all their ghastly, ghastly women. How rotton their world actually was - rotten to the core - "hard, glittering, sophisticated, heartless and insincere" as Lord Blake (I think) put it.

Edit: I put marshmellow instead of marshmallow - very embarrassing. Dowton Abbey obviously has us all mellowing out.

Edit: And I put confectionary instead of confectionery - I'll be talking about Henry Tudor's gambol at Bosworth next.

Oh, Lord, I did rabbit on a bit yesterday, didn't I? Sorry. Only a few lines this morning.

Cumberbatch, star of Parade's End, has commented on the rival production and, according to the Telegraph, he "couldn't have been beastlier" about Downton Abbey. But, to be fair, Cumberbatch's comments were made about Series 2.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/downton-abbey/9480067/Benedict-Cumberbatch-Downton-Abbey-is-sentimental-cliched-and-atrocious.html

Fellowes, who is all graciousness, has forgiven the outspoken lad, whom he calls - er - Cumberbitch.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9480605/Dowton-Abbey-creator-Julian-Fellowes-is-willing-to-forgive-Cumberbitch.html

But this is all old news. This morning we are all agog (here in England) at reports of Andrew Mitchell's foul-mouthed rant in Downing Street.

Andrew Mitchell, Tory Chief Whip, has apologised (unreservedly?) to the police. Apparently when the police tried to stop Mitchell - whose nickname when he was at Rugby was "Thrasher" - from exiting Downing Street on his bike (it is one of those nice old-fashioned ones with a wicker basket), the Tory minister "exploded with fury".

The PC targeted by the alleged tirade reported to his superiors that Mitchell told him: "Best learn your f**ckng place. You don't run this f**cking government. You're a f**cking pleb."

Oh heck.

Thrasher's outburst has (according to BBC Breakfast) "caused David Cameron considerable embarrassment."

Oh dear, another one that needs to learn to say nothing.

normanhurst wrote:

Oh dear, another one that needs to learn to say nothing.

Norman, you are worryingly ambiguous. Do you mean me or Andrew Mitchell - or both of us?

I've been up since 5am reading "Parade's End" (most of yesterday too), and I have watched the first episode of the BBC production. Both are absolutely superb - surely not to be likened to high class "chick-lit" or posh soap opera.

My apologies to Tom Stoppard: his script is excellent - and his use of trains is restrained and appropriate.

I'm actually liking Christopher very much, ferval (I would, wouldn't I? ), even though he is a Tory ("the last Tory", FMF calls him), but he's a *High* Tory, isn't he, a man born too late - the sort Fellowes tries to give us in Lord Grantham. Part of me actually has a sneaky admiration for the old High Tories - duty and noblesse oblige and all that. The genuine sort, that is, (like the queen - is she actually "the last Tory"?). But what am I saying? Back to my book.

PS I actually know very little about the history of the High Tories - their rise in the 17th (?) and 18th centuries and their great clashes with the Whigs. Might be interesting to find out more.

Another good article about the programme here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/03/gentle-tory-parades-end-yearning

I'm not trying to turn this into My Downton Blog, honest, but please may I add one more post?

I've just had a look at this week's Radio Times, usually a sensible, sane sort of publication.

To my amazement, several pages are devoted to "Lady Mary's Wedding Album".

There are lots of piccies of course, but also my very own "handwritten" invitation from the Crawleys - presumably for me to cut out and treasure forever.

There is also a little paragraph tucked away at the bottom of page 26. It is headed "The Expert's View" and it is written by Peta Hunt, the editor of "You and Your Wedding" This is what Peta has to say:

"This seems to me the quintessential English wedding. It is clearly set in the 1920s, but it is very much of the moment. That period has been in the fashion ether in anticipation of this series of Downton entering the Roaring 20s. There have been influences evident in wedding collections already: Lady Mary's dress will definitely inspire girls to go back to the long veil; as well as other details like simple invitations with beautiful calligraphy, a tiered wedding cake and groomsmen's suits. I'd love to see a move back to traditional tails and stock pins in men's ties - those well may make a comeback!"

I think I need a drink.

Did you also notice that, on the other side, there's a new series 'The Paradise' set in a late 19th c. department store.
Now I realise that things are pretty ropey for many folk just now but does scurrying back to the past and a time when life was immeasurably worse for most people really help to alleviate the gloom and if it does, what on earth does that say about us?


ps, where does the expression 'ropey' come from?

My Oxford dictionary cites its first recorded use as 1942 and that it originated in the RAF. It applied originally to old and defunct aircraft and an over reliance on ropes and pulleys in their design, and then to anything deemed of inferior quality. My Partridge's Dictionary of Slang however makes a braver stab at it and gets it right back to the late 19th century. It claims it originated with inferior internal decorators whose paint on the wall, when dried, appeared ropey. They hedge their bets though and also go for the RAF one, though they put it as far back as 1930.

Thank you sir, I knew that would be quicker than going for the dictionary.

Ferval and Priscilla - haven't you found "Parade's End" very funny? I think it's quite brilliant.

Best line so far must be: "I detect the pallor of self-abuse," from the utterly loopy Rev. Duchemin (Rufus Sewell).

I have to admit I should have liked to have heard that particular line delivered by Maggie Smith.

Yes, there are some very funny sections, the Blackadderish general for a start. I really need to watch it again to appreciate the dialogue properly.

yes, Temp, Stoppard enjoyed himself with the dialogue. The entire drama is a serious farce - very cleverly produced and edited - the 'moving on, keep up folks' element was delicious. We have became so used to 5 mins plot bites spelling everything out.

I watched both episodes of DA today. Oh dear. It hasn't got any better has it?

Priscilla wrote:

I watched both episodes of DA today. Oh dear. It hasn't got any better has it?

Last night's episode was so dire I nearly posted something during the adverts, but I simply couldn't be bothered. How *is* Fellowes getting away with this utter, utter crap?

And the Telegraph gives it four stars this morning - how these nobs are laughing at us all.

Andrew Mitchell is going to give us "the Truth" in ten minutes - that should be fun at least.

Apparently we have the third series of DA arriving soon, is that the one you have been watching? Also I have just collected "Portrait of an Unknown Woman" Temp so I will get stuck into that from the perspective of knowing who Clements is supposed to be.

Hi Gran - yes, series three it is.

Hope you enjoy reading "Portrait" again!

Mitchell has said nothing much after all - very disappointing. He simply denies using the P-word and disappears to "get on with the job". We'd all hoped for words for another "I'm Sorry" song - a race for number one with Nick Clegg. His "I'm Sorry" song (charity version) has actually entered the charts here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo

It would be fun to do a similar thing with Mitchell - a gangsta rap song perhaps, with lots of expletives and threats against the Met.

Fellowes IS getting away with it and laughing all the way to the bank. More awards for the show (series 2, the really woeful one too) last night at the Grammys apparently. He has tapped into a huge market in the US, possibly his aim all along was the US audience?

Last night's episode was woeful and coming after the Ladybird animated book of The history of the World, I was seriously pee'd off with the priorities of TV commissioners and production companies when it comes to the allocation of cash.

Emmy Awards, not the Grammys, ID! They haven't actually started singing yet up at the Big House. Hold on - I tell a lie! Shirley MacLaine sang last night - "Let Me Call You Sweetheart" to Maggie Smith in what the Independent calls "a worryingly Sapphic moment".

Downton Abbey did badly - sixteen *nominations* it's true - but only one award - Maggie Smith as Best Supporting Female Ham.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2012/sep/24/emmys-2012-homeland-maggie-smith?newsfeed=true

But why do I keep watching this tripe and reading about it? I hate myself, but I just can't stop. I think I need help, along with nine million others.

It's like "The Tudors" all over again, but far, far worse.

What is happening to us all?

It's just light entertainment, Temp, not to be worried about.

Temperance wrote:

Emmy Awards, not the Grammys, ID! They haven't actually started singing yet up at the Big House. Hold on - I tell a lie! Shirley MacLaine sang last night - "Let Me Call You Sweetheart" to Maggie Smith in what the Independent calls "a worryingly Sapphic moment".

Ha, you're right Temp. Shows how much notice I take of this sort of stuff!

But Caro is correct, DA is not meant to be taken seriously.

Well I've seen the 2nd episode, and didn't think it was all that bad for light fluff. But I wasn't expecting much either, the cancer sillyness is really really pushing it though.

Anything that inspires this can't be all bad. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-09-23/downton-abbey-series-three-episode-two-review-matthew-survives-daisys-oven-explodes

Well we have only got to series 2 but I watch it just for Maggie Smith, and apart from her delicious comments its just light froth and enjoyable, believe me you UK watchers are so lucky, sigh, oh to have BBC here. Some of what we tolerate is for want of a more acceptable word awful.

I know exactly what you mean Gran, although this winter we are getting a few BBC programmes apparently. Downton, Parades End, something about Midwives, Upstairs Downstairs, can't remember the other one. Oh, and one from Denmark which I won't be watching because it will be in Danish with Greek subtitles and I'm too lazy to bother keeping up with them.

ferval wrote:

Anything that inspires this can't be all bad. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-09-23/downton-abbey-series-three-episode-two-review-matthew-survives-daisys-oven-explodes

Excellent review!

I'd forgotten the hapless Turk. Was Matthew ever told that Mary wasn't intacta? Or was she - did she and the Turk ever actually do it, or did he expire first? This is dreadful - I simply can't remember.

PS Shouldn't Matthew always call his father-in-law, "Sir"? I suppose Fellowes thought that might perplex the plebs.

Hi Temp, I seem to remember that the Turk said he could do it without spoiling her for her Husband. That was probably why she was willing. Well whatever he did he spoiled it for himself!

If I remember correctly, Mary did tell Matthew about her little nocturnal adventure. And after a bit of fuss Matthew accepted it like the jolly good chap he is and said it didn't matter. I swear these Downton toffs are as open minded about such things as people today, amazing!

ID, you are absolutely right.

This has been on my mind all morning, and I have been feverishly searching the internet for answers (between bouts of Euhemerism actually - dare I ask a question on that thread? - best not - bit scary - but perhaps I'll summon up the courage after lunch).

It's all here:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2012/02/downton-abbey-recap-it-was-lust-matthew.html

"It was *lust*, Matthew!"

Phew! So that's all right then.

Do you know I had forgotton all about that awful Sir Richard, too?

Heavens Temp, you are game! I had to look Euhemerism up as I keep getting confused by the word. It's Greek euhemeros meaning prosperous, and somehow I don't think that has anything to do with the discussion....but it is what I keep thinking the word means rather than the English interpretation of the word.

Think I'll stick to uncomplicated stuff like DA.......

Islanddawn wrote:

Heavens Temp, you are game! I had to look Euhemerism up as I keep getting confused by the word. It's Greek euhemeros meaning prosperous, and somehow I don't think that has anything to do with the discussion....but it is what I keep thinking the word means rather than the English interpretation of the word.

Think I'll stick to uncomplicated stuff like DA.......

Yes, I'm confused too.

I'm keeping out of any religious stuff. It always ends up with both sides bashing me, and me making an absolute prat of myself. Will stick to DA and PG, with the odd comment now and then about him in the car park. Much safer.

And cats.

Just to be serious once more. This programme should be interesting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2207935/Downton-Abbey-servants-New-BBC-series-Servants-The-True-Story-Life-Below-Stairs.html

Ah BBC True stuff coming soon eh? And we already we have another costumed - and very predictable - series The Paradis -early department store and early to bed, stuff, I think.

Makes one quite miss the daily dose of Tudor tonic.

I suggest a serial about Bess of Hardwick - seeings as how they use her (second) Hall for DA - outside shots, anywaay. Marrying 4 times - I think - Bess got richer each time. Sounds good TV material there - and a good dollop of Tudor too.

Have just seen Clint Eastwood winning another war. I think I had better go and read a book - better yet, write one.

Priscilla wrote:

I suggest a serial about Bess of Hardwick - seeings as how they use her (second) Hall for DA - outside shots, anywaay. Marrying 4 times - I think - Bess got richer each time. Sounds good TV material there - and a good dollop of Tudor too.

My favourite location in Downton Abbey is the Dower House: it is an absolutely beautiful place.





Maggie Smith describes this as "her little cottage". She casually told the Duke of Crowborough (like you do) over dinner, "It was designed by Wren for the first Earl's sister."

The Downton Dower Cottage is actually a private residence - Byfleet Manor near Byfleet in Surrey. You can hire the place for a posh wedding:

http://www.byfleetmanor.com/

Bess of Hardwick was an absolute cow. Poor Shrewsbury and poor Mary Queen of Scots. (Bess accused them of having an affair.) Around 1584, in what is best described as a fit of pique, MQS wrote a deliciously bitchy letter - the Scandal Letter - to Elizabeth about her "guardian". It was full of the most dreadful things Bess had allegedly said about Elizabeth and it was a missive that *dripped* with female malice. Cecil apparently made sure that Elizabeth never saw it - good job too.

But yes, Bess's story would make an excellent drama.

I read about Bess of Hardwick, but I am unable to remember the author now. Apparently her husband had ro look after MQS but Bess thought they were having an affair. She was buried in style with a tomb better than kings

It seems JK Rowling is set to jump on the bandwagon with the release of her latest novel. A 19C story set around the lives of those in the 'big house' and that of a small village, according to the Beeb radio this morning.

Will be interesting to see how versatile a writer she is and whether she can move away from the whole Potter phenonomen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17693206