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Topics tagged under de_tweede_schoolstrijd_ on Res Historica History Forum Quill111Topic: Are we back to the Thirties?
PaulRyckier

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Search in: Civilisation and Community   Topics tagged under de_tweede_schoolstrijd_ on Res Historica History Forum EmptySubject: Are we back to the Thirties?    Topics tagged under de_tweede_schoolstrijd_ on Res Historica History Forum EmptyMon 17 Dec 2018, 22:31
@Vizzer wrote:
@PaulRyckier wrote:
After the defeat of the Liberal party in the general elections of 1884 the doctrinarian faction continued to dominate the Belgian Liberal party.


I hadn’t appreciated that through the ‘School War’ of the early 1880s, Belgium had experienced a similar phenomenon to the contemporaneous Kulturkampf in Germany – i.e. a struggle between secularism and organised religion (normally the Catholic Church) and mainly relating to state education. I imagine that such phenomena probably affected large parts of Europe at that time.


@PaulRyckier wrote:
As for the "coupon election" of 1918 I sought some further enlightenment, but it says indeed not more than you
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british-electoral-history-since-1832/the-1918-coupon-election/


That’s a very succinct article Paul and covers all the basics. Despite its brevity it also contains information which I was unaware of in that that was the first UK General Election in which everyone voted on the same day. So thank you for the link.

Herbert Henry Asquith’s political career following the loss of his seat in 1918 was not what might have been expected. After such a humiliation, and at the age of 66, one might have thought that retirement was the obvious next step for ‘poor old Squiff’. But not a bit of it. He remained the official leader of the Liberal Party and was back in the House of Commons only 14 months later following victory in a by-election. He was still leader of the Liberals when Lloyd George’s own ministry ended in 1922 after the Conservatives quit the Coalition. And Asquith would still be leading the Liberals into the 1924 General Election.

He had first led the Liberals in a general election in 1910 and how the fortunes of the Liberal Party had changed in the intervening 14 years. In 1910 the Liberals had won 272 seats to Labour’s 42. By 1924 the ratio was almost reversed with Labour on 191 seats and the Liberals on 40. And how the world had also changed. In December 1910 Russia was ruled by Tsar Nicholas II. In China the infant emperor Pu-Yi reigned. In Antarctica Robert Falcon Scott’s xxpedition had just arrived on that continent and in Belfast the transatlantic liner Titanic was still being built. By October 1924 in Russia, Lenin was already dead and Stalin was taking over. In Germany Adolf Hitler was in Landsberg Prison writing Mein Kampf. In the Himalayas George Mallory and Andrew Irvine disappeared during an attempt to be the first to climb Mt Everest and in New York the first transatlantic texts and images were sent by radiofax.

The centenary of the 1918 General Election this week was barely noticed in the British media (no doubt more occupied with Mrs May’s deal and vote of confidence etc). It was quite different in Ireland, however, where RTE broadcast a program about it on Friday. I’ve found it online and what an excellent production it is:

Election '18

It presents the results of the 1918 election in Ireland in the format of a 21st century election night special, complete with on-the-spot reporters at selected counts. The various studio contributors are also superb, discussing the issues and results as live and contemporary while carefully avoiding the benefit of hindsight. It’s an outstanding exercise in unlearning the past which is really not an easy thing to achieve.

The RTE website also includes an article on the making of the program:

Election '18 - bringing history to life

And there’s also a handy interactive map which can be used to compare and contrast the results of the 1910 and 1918 elections:

Election 1918

All highly recommended.


Vizzer,

thank you very much for your comments and I will certainly look to all what mentioned including the RTE website.

"He had first led the Liberals in a general election in 1910 and how the fortunes of the Liberal Party had changed in the intervening 14 years. In 1910 the Liberals had won 272 seats to Labour’s 42. By 1924 the ratio was almost reversed with Labour on 191 seats and the Liberals on 40. And how the world had also changed. In December 1910 Russia was ruled by Tsar Nicholas II. In China the infant emperor Pu-Yi reigned. In Antarctica Robert Falcon Scott’s xxpedition had just arrived on that continent and in Belfast the transatlantic liner Titanic was still being built. By October 1924 in Russia, Lenin was already dead and Stalin was taking over. In Germany Adolf Hitler was in Landsberg Prison writing Mein Kampf. In the Himalayas George Mallory and Andrew Irvine disappeared during an attempt to be the first to climb Mt Everest and in New York the first transatlantic texts and images were sent by radiofax."

That's interesting how you put the change of 14 years between 1910 and 1924 in a global context.

"I hadn’t appreciated that through the ‘School War’ of the early 1880s, Belgium had experienced a similar phenomenon to the contemporaneous Kulturkampf in Germany – i.e. a struggle between secularism and organised religion (normally the Catholic Church) and mainly relating to state education. I imagine that such phenomena probably affected large parts of Europe at that time."


Yes Vizzer you are  right. Above the Belgian "schoolstrijd" (school struggle?) you had the Kulturkampf that you mentioned, you had also the struggle in France at nearly the same time with Jules Ferry.
In Belgium you had two of them the first that you mentioned and the second in the Fifties, where i was as ten year old witness of.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoolstrijd_(Belgi%C3%AB)#De_tweede_schoolstrijd_(1950-1958)
If I have time, I will look if I don't find anything in English
As said in the second one we had to shout sparked by the clerics in choir: "weg met Collard" (away with Collard (socialist minister of education I suppose) Wink But then it was not between the Liberals and the Catholics anymore, but with the Socialists.

But with the Kulturkampf I guess it was more for Bismarck a fear of the einheimische (local) German Protestants against the international ramifications of a Pope in Rome (influence all over the world. Compare Rome with Mecca), but has the Roman Catholics has still might in Germany the pragmatic Bismarck chose to apease them in the struggle with the Socialists, which were in his eyes even more dangerous with their "internationale"...
https://www.britannica.com/event/Kulturkampf


And finally France:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Ferry
From the wiki:
Schoolreforms.
Two important works are associated with his administration: the non-clerical organization of public education, and the major colonial expansion of France. Following the republican programme, he proposed to destroy the influence of the clergy in the university and found his own system of republican schooling. He reorganized the committee of public education (law of 27 February 1880), and proposed a regulation for the conferring of university degrees, which, though rejected, aroused violent polemics because the 7th article took away from the unauthorized religious orders the right to teach. He finally succeeded in passing his eponymous laws of 16 June 1881 and 28 March 1882, which made primary education in France free, non-clerical (laïque) and mandatory. In higher education, the number of professors, called the "Republic's black hussars" (French: hussards noirs de la République) because of their Republican support, doubled under his ministry.[3]
The education policies establishing French language as the language of the Republic have been contested in the second half of the 20th century insofar as, while they played an important role in unifying the French nation state and the Third Republic, they also nearly caused the extinction of several regional languages.[10]


And I saw a splendid French film in that context:
"L'orange de Noël" (the orange of Christmass) (as many French households on the countryside were not able to buy an orange in winter for a present)
Some years ago you could nearly every old film download, but nowadays the big companies (rant) have taken it all to let it pay. It's socalled for free, until you subscribe to the obliged enter. If someon know a "real"!!! free channel...?
Anyway it is this one and I really enjoyed it:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0136444/

Kind regards from Paul.
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