A discussion forum for history enthusiasts everywhere
 
HomeHome  Recent ActivityRecent Activity  FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  SearchSearch  

Share | 
 

 Are we back to the Thirties?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
Vizzer
Censura


Posts : 1062
Join date : 2012-05-12

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Sun 16 Dec 2018, 18:37

@PaulRyckier wrote:
After the defeat of the Liberal party in the general elections of 1884 the doctrinarian faction continued to dominate the Belgian Liberal party.

I hadn’t appreciated that through the ‘School War’ of the early 1880s, Belgium had experienced a similar phenomenon to the contemporaneous Kulturkampf in Germany – i.e. a struggle between secularism and organised religion (normally the Catholic Church) and mainly relating to state education. I imagine that such phenomena probably affected large parts of Europe at that time.


@PaulRyckier wrote:
As for the "coupon election" of 1918 I sought some further enlightenment, but it says indeed not more than you
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british-electoral-history-since-1832/the-1918-coupon-election/

That’s a very succinct article Paul and covers all the basics. Despite its brevity it also contains information which I was unaware of in that that was the first UK General Election in which everyone voted on the same day. So thank you for the link.

Herbert Henry Asquith’s political career following the loss of his seat in 1918 was not what might have been expected. After such a humiliation, and at the age of 66, one might have thought that retirement was the obvious next step for ‘poor old Squiff’. But not a bit of it. He remained the official leader of the Liberal Party and was back in the House of Commons only 14 months later following victory in a by-election. He was still leader of the Liberals when Lloyd George’s own ministry ended in 1922 after the Conservatives quit the Coalition. And Asquith would still be leading the Liberals into the 1924 General Election.

He had first led the Liberals in a general election in 1910 and how the fortunes of the Liberal Party had changed in the intervening 14 years. In 1910 the Liberals had won 272 seats to Labour’s 42. By 1924 the ratio was almost reversed with Labour on 191 seats and the Liberals on 40. And how the world had also changed. In December 1910 Russia was ruled by Tsar Nicholas II. In China the infant emperor Pu-Yi reigned. In Antarctica Robert Falcon Scott’s xxpedition had just arrived on that continent and in Belfast the transatlantic liner Titanic was still being built. By October 1924 in Russia, Lenin was already dead and Stalin was taking over. In Germany Adolf Hitler was in Landsberg Prison writing Mein Kampf. In the Himalayas George Mallory and Andrew Irvine disappeared during an attempt to be the first to climb Mt Everest and in New York the first transatlantic texts and images were sent by radiofax.

The centenary of the 1918 General Election this week was barely noticed in the British media (no doubt more occupied with Mrs May’s deal and vote of confidence etc). It was quite different in Ireland, however, where RTE broadcast a program about it on Friday. I’ve found it online and what an excellent production it is:

Election '18

It presents the results of the 1918 election in Ireland in the format of a 21st century election night special, complete with on-the-spot reporters at selected counts. The various studio contributors are also superb, discussing the issues and results as live and contemporary while carefully avoiding the benefit of hindsight. It’s an outstanding exercise in unlearning the past which is really not an easy thing to achieve.

The RTE website also includes an article on the making of the program:

Election '18 - bringing history to life

And there’s also a handy interactive map which can be used to compare and contrast the results of the 1910 and 1918 elections:

Election 1918

All highly recommended.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Mon 17 Dec 2018, 21:17

@PaulRyckier wrote:
Addendum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica

And about the documentary:
https://www.idfa.nl/en/film/8d446397-41c2-4cc2-b544-e067e6dcd0d9/unfair-game-how-trump-won
And the documentary:
It is in French, no problem for MM and me and I am sure you can still watch it in German on ARTE, no problem for Nielsen and me.
But there is a device for other languages (click on the wheel) Of course it is odd English but I suppose you will be able to follow...


I sought to visualize again the documentary and now in English, but everywhere it is not available anymore for all kind of reasons:

But here I guess the subtitles in English from the Deutsche Welle. I have to check against the French text of the documentary that I have still on my hard disk....to see if this is also no fake news Wink ...
http://www.yousubtitles.com/UNFAIR-GAME-HOW-TRUMP-WON-DW-Documentary--id-2170011

And that's the documentary again from ARTE in French again
https://goo.gl/D4J9Qr

And also on the subject from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Mon 17 Dec 2018, 22:31

@Vizzer wrote:
@PaulRyckier wrote:
After the defeat of the Liberal party in the general elections of 1884 the doctrinarian faction continued to dominate the Belgian Liberal party.

I hadn’t appreciated that through the ‘School War’ of the early 1880s, Belgium had experienced a similar phenomenon to the contemporaneous Kulturkampf in Germany – i.e. a struggle between secularism and organised religion (normally the Catholic Church) and mainly relating to state education. I imagine that such phenomena probably affected large parts of Europe at that time.


@PaulRyckier wrote:
As for the "coupon election" of 1918 I sought some further enlightenment, but it says indeed not more than you
https://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british-electoral-history-since-1832/the-1918-coupon-election/

That’s a very succinct article Paul and covers all the basics. Despite its brevity it also contains information which I was unaware of in that that was the first UK General Election in which everyone voted on the same day. So thank you for the link.

Herbert Henry Asquith’s political career following the loss of his seat in 1918 was not what might have been expected. After such a humiliation, and at the age of 66, one might have thought that retirement was the obvious next step for ‘poor old Squiff’. But not a bit of it. He remained the official leader of the Liberal Party and was back in the House of Commons only 14 months later following victory in a by-election. He was still leader of the Liberals when Lloyd George’s own ministry ended in 1922 after the Conservatives quit the Coalition. And Asquith would still be leading the Liberals into the 1924 General Election.

He had first led the Liberals in a general election in 1910 and how the fortunes of the Liberal Party had changed in the intervening 14 years. In 1910 the Liberals had won 272 seats to Labour’s 42. By 1924 the ratio was almost reversed with Labour on 191 seats and the Liberals on 40. And how the world had also changed. In December 1910 Russia was ruled by Tsar Nicholas II. In China the infant emperor Pu-Yi reigned. In Antarctica Robert Falcon Scott’s xxpedition had just arrived on that continent and in Belfast the transatlantic liner Titanic was still being built. By October 1924 in Russia, Lenin was already dead and Stalin was taking over. In Germany Adolf Hitler was in Landsberg Prison writing Mein Kampf. In the Himalayas George Mallory and Andrew Irvine disappeared during an attempt to be the first to climb Mt Everest and in New York the first transatlantic texts and images were sent by radiofax.

The centenary of the 1918 General Election this week was barely noticed in the British media (no doubt more occupied with Mrs May’s deal and vote of confidence etc). It was quite different in Ireland, however, where RTE broadcast a program about it on Friday. I’ve found it online and what an excellent production it is:

Election '18

It presents the results of the 1918 election in Ireland in the format of a 21st century election night special, complete with on-the-spot reporters at selected counts. The various studio contributors are also superb, discussing the issues and results as live and contemporary while carefully avoiding the benefit of hindsight. It’s an outstanding exercise in unlearning the past which is really not an easy thing to achieve.

The RTE website also includes an article on the making of the program:

Election '18 - bringing history to life

And there’s also a handy interactive map which can be used to compare and contrast the results of the 1910 and 1918 elections:

Election 1918

All highly recommended.

Vizzer,

thank you very much for your comments and I will certainly look to all what mentioned including the RTE website.

"He had first led the Liberals in a general election in 1910 and how the fortunes of the Liberal Party had changed in the intervening 14 years. In 1910 the Liberals had won 272 seats to Labour’s 42. By 1924 the ratio was almost reversed with Labour on 191 seats and the Liberals on 40. And how the world had also changed. In December 1910 Russia was ruled by Tsar Nicholas II. In China the infant emperor Pu-Yi reigned. In Antarctica Robert Falcon Scott’s xxpedition had just arrived on that continent and in Belfast the transatlantic liner Titanic was still being built. By October 1924 in Russia, Lenin was already dead and Stalin was taking over. In Germany Adolf Hitler was in Landsberg Prison writing Mein Kampf. In the Himalayas George Mallory and Andrew Irvine disappeared during an attempt to be the first to climb Mt Everest and in New York the first transatlantic texts and images were sent by radiofax."

That's interesting how you put the change of 14 years between 1910 and 1924 in a global context.

"I hadn’t appreciated that through the ‘School War’ of the early 1880s, Belgium had experienced a similar phenomenon to the contemporaneous Kulturkampf in Germany – i.e. a struggle between secularism and organised religion (normally the Catholic Church) and mainly relating to state education. I imagine that such phenomena probably affected large parts of Europe at that time."


Yes Vizzer you are  right. Above the Belgian "schoolstrijd" (school struggle?) you had the Kulturkampf that you mentioned, you had also the struggle in France at nearly the same time with Jules Ferry.
In Belgium you had two of them the first that you mentioned and the second in the Fifties, where i was as ten year old witness of.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoolstrijd_(Belgi%C3%AB)#De_tweede_schoolstrijd_(1950-1958)
If I have time, I will look if I don't find anything in English
As said in the second one we had to shout sparked by the clerics in choir: "weg met Collard" (away with Collard (socialist minister of education I suppose) Wink But then it was not between the Liberals and the Catholics anymore, but with the Socialists.

But with the Kulturkampf I guess it was more for Bismarck a fear of the einheimische (local) German Protestants against the international ramifications of a Pope in Rome (influence all over the world. Compare Rome with Mecca), but has the Roman Catholics has still might in Germany the pragmatic Bismarck chose to apease them in the struggle with the Socialists, which were in his eyes even more dangerous with their "internationale"...
https://www.britannica.com/event/Kulturkampf


And finally France:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Ferry
From the wiki:
Schoolreforms.
Two important works are associated with his administration: the non-clerical organization of public education, and the major colonial expansion of France. Following the republican programme, he proposed to destroy the influence of the clergy in the university and found his own system of republican schooling. He reorganized the committee of public education (law of 27 February 1880), and proposed a regulation for the conferring of university degrees, which, though rejected, aroused violent polemics because the 7th article took away from the unauthorized religious orders the right to teach. He finally succeeded in passing his eponymous laws of 16 June 1881 and 28 March 1882, which made primary education in France free, non-clerical (laïque) and mandatory. In higher education, the number of professors, called the "Republic's black hussars" (French: hussards noirs de la République) because of their Republican support, doubled under his ministry.[3]
The education policies establishing French language as the language of the Republic have been contested in the second half of the 20th century insofar as, while they played an important role in unifying the French nation state and the Third Republic, they also nearly caused the extinction of several regional languages.[10]


And I saw a splendid French film in that context:
"L'orange de Noël" (the orange of Christmass) (as many French households on the countryside were not able to buy an orange in winter for a present)
Some years ago you could nearly every old film download, but nowadays the big companies (rant) have taken it all to let it pay. It's socalled for free, until you subscribe to the obliged enter. If someon know a "real"!!! free channel...?
Anyway it is this one and I really enjoyed it:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0136444/

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Mon 17 Dec 2018, 22:39

Addendum to the film: "L'orange de Noël"
https://vimeo.com/5199470

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Tue 18 Dec 2018, 20:28

Vizzer,

and more about the French separation of church and state from 1905
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State

And adding to the question of the Jules Ferry schools that I mentioned above? I saw lately a film about the difficulties in French schools now not with the Catholics but now with the Muslim students...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Journ%C3%A9e_de_la_jupe
http://www.allocine.fr/film/fichefilm_gen_cfilm=142311.html

I see in the survey of the press appreciation that mostly the tabloïd press gives it  a high score, but what is the score of the so called serious papers worth? And I don't know what the serious French papers are and what side they are "leaning" Wink
And I don't know how honest this review is:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-newspapers-in-France


In my humble opinion it is some bit exagerated (put thick in the paint (dik in de verf gezet) picture of a clash within the laic (lay?) state school of the French lay culture (the right of a woman to wear a skirt) and the Muslim culture as before the Roman-Catholic culture. And I found it a rather good film.
But to be honest I found an "American" (or is it Russian fake-news) site, which heavely criticize the film:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/film-review-skirt-day-92845
And yes it is American
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/p/masthead
And a trailer:
https://vimeo.com/114997928

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Tue 18 Dec 2018, 21:23

My message was complete on preview, I agree a bit vitriolic about the U-turn of the Socialists and the Green ones, which led to the demission of our PM.
I pressed the preview tab, no coming from outside or any others and suddenly the white frame "this page can not be reproduced" and after several new tries the famous "no mode specified" I start again Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
I is as in the time of the BBC that a moderator is looking and then sent you a PM...

I send it in chapters to not lose it completely again.

Last week, we had a Flemish Nationalist party in the government, who opposed the Liberal Prime Minister to agree to the UN migration pact.
The PM asked the meaning of the parliament and the opposition parties, the Green ones and the Socialists voted together with the Christian Democrats and the Liberals from the government for the UN pact and against the Flemish Nationalists. The Flemish Nationalists left the government and the goverment remained with a minority of Christian democrats and Liberals to go to the federal polls of May together with the European elections.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Tue 18 Dec 2018, 21:40

Last days the Flemish Nationalists said to not further support the minority government, which is from their point of view perhaps quite normal as they expect to gain on the wave of the anti-migrant crisis. (And they lost in the last municipalities polls).
But now the Socialists in a machiavellic U turn, say that they will also not support the minority government if they don't give in to their specific grievances. They too expect a gain as they were a bit out the last years and now with the recent municipality polls gained especially in the Brussels Wallloon federation. And the Green ones were the last years as everywhere gaining in the polls and they too think to win in immediate poll before May. They both put the immediate gain above the dear principles and want to put the country in trouble for immediate electoral goals.The Prime Minister resigned this evening and went to the king as the procedure wants and we will see now what the king will do...
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Tue 18 Dec 2018, 21:56

The Flemish Socialists started to ask for a non confidence vote, of course immediately followed by the French side of the Socialsts, who think to regain again their former glory in the Brussels-Walloon federation. And of course the Green ones followed too...

But I think those Flemish Socialists have not thought to the end. As we by all this can end in a split of the regions: a Flemish region (state à la Pujemon?) dominated by the Flemish right wing nationalists and a Brussels-Walloon federation (rest Belgium state) dominated by the Socialists...
And if it realy come to a split: what will they do with the "Brussels National" aeroport on "Flemish" "territory" (German: Boden) and will they do a "territory" swap for a "corridor" from Brussels to Wallonia, which now is still "Flemish" "territory"...

Kind regards from a bitter Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Tue 18 Dec 2018, 22:02

OOPS and I forgot to ask if there were any similarities with the present British situation?

Still a bitter Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Wed 19 Dec 2018, 19:53

And I read today in the paper and saw it on television, that in comparison with my bad perception of yesterday, that perception is today even worser. It were indeed a struggle in the own Liberal government ranks, that let the Prime Minister decide to go to the king with the demission of his government. It was indeed the Flemish part of the Liberals, as Tatcherite Liberals, that were closer to the Flemish Nationalist Tatcherites, than to their Brussels-Walloon more social Liberals, who wanted to give some concessions to the Socialists. Of course the Socialists were happy to give the Black Piet through to the Flemish Liberals, who wanted to give the Prime Minister only one hour to decide about their demand , while the Socialist wanted to wait for another 48 hours to decide to let fall the government (48 hours before they would start with their motion of no-confidence.)

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
Dirk Marinus
Consulatus
Dirk Marinus

Posts : 154
Join date : 2016-02-03

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Wed 19 Dec 2018, 20:25

Paul,

 It seems that the RIGHT orientated groups could succeed in an attempt to end Europe.

Take your time to read through:


The End of Europe?
France is pivotal in holding the European Union together.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/the-end-of-europe/ar-BBRa68J?ocid=spartandhp



Dirk
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Wed 19 Dec 2018, 22:24

@Dirk Marinus wrote:
Paul,

It seems that the RIGHT orientated groups could succeed in an attempt to end Europe
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/the-end-of-europe/ar-BBRa68J?ocid=spartandhp

Dirk

Dirk,

I read through the article and am interested in this American point of view. And there is an unease in the Western world among the middle class Whites and I add also the poor segment. But in my opinion there is a world of difference between the US social system and the European one, and with that I mean the Benelux, France, Britain, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Scandinavian and I suppose Finland too. the former East-Block I don't know that much...the Beveridge welfare state...and I think even a Tatcher and her Friedman Boys, weren't able to change that much that model...but by the competition on the world market, that model comes in danger, as the solidarity costs money, in Belgium and France two of highest taxed of Europe, but the rich firms don't pay taxes with the treath to evade to other less taxed countries, the same for the rich ones who abhor (detest) solidarity and thus the middle class has to pay for the poor and yes as there is less middle class, the solidarity of the poor is less...and above that there comes a migrant crisis...
I was today in the revalidation center of the clinic, as my wife has to revalidate of a new right hip operation (so I am more free in the evenings and mornings Wink )
In the cantine I met a lady in her fifties working there, who was two years divorced (man away with another lady) and had to renew her life and hiring in Bruges for 600 Euro a month. After 48 years work in the Horeca (hotel, restaurant, café) she would have netto 1100 Euro in retirement minus her hire, electricity, water, gas, she guessed she would have some 300 Euro for food and leisure. And the public servant had said: yes madame, but you always worked for a small wage, in that case it is quite normal. And then she said bitterly, I will have to work to the end of my days...and then further, right or wrong, but that was her perception (and she could be right as I am too  in the hire business), these brown asyl seekers, receive immediately an appartment on the costs of the state and we are on a list for at least for six years...
Tomorrow more about Switzerland and further about the question and the article.

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Thu 20 Dec 2018, 22:44

Dirk,

further about the article.

As said a fundamental difference in the US against Europe in social solidarity that is reflected for instance I thnk also in the earnings from labour:
The relation between the upper tenth fraction and the lower tenth fraction.
From:
http://www.armoedebestrijding.be/cijfers_kloof_arm_rijk.htm



And there I was struck that Sweden,Belgium, Denmark, and Finland were among the lowest ratio.

But even better about the real income relation,
Gini-coëfficiënt. De waarde van de coëfficiënt varieert van 0 (volledige inkomensgelijkheid) tot 100 (volledige inkomensongelijkheid: al het inkomen behoort aan één persoon).
Gini coëfficiënt: The worth of the coëfficiënt variates from 0 (complete income equality) to 100 (complete income inequality: all the income belongs to one person)

And there it is astonishing to see the UK between Poland and Greece.
And also the regional distribution only made for Belgium, but I guess it is the same for each country...
The Flemish region together with Norway and also a surprizing Slovenia and Czech republic, the Walloon region a bit better than Belgium, but the Brussels region a bit worser than Romania
And in a recent article, I saw that although the better years since the 2008 crisis, the upper tenth today! earn more than the lowest tenth in Belgium in comparison with ten years ago.

But I wonder how this statistics would be for the US, but I see that in the last grafic Switzerland comes out relatively well, even better than France...I guess they are all equally rich... Wink 

But yes that fear for migrants seems to be the same in the whole Western world, where most are afraid of people, who cost money and don't contribute to the wealth of the community and meant perhaps also trouble in the society because of an other culture...

And that fear is emphasized by the far right as in the Thirties and they seek to fragment that European repulsion into individual states to better fight the phenomenon on their individual borders, "am liebsten" (preferably?) with a far? right government as in Hungary...
But they forget that they are act better together as in the Belgian: "Union fait la force" (unity is strength), but the far right under the leading of the American Steve Bannon, wants individual entities (I don't know the real reason of Bannon to want it that way? A far right Europe equal to the Trump US?) He was in Belgium to support the Flemish far right: Vlaams Belang (the former Flemish Blok)...and an own Flemish State for the own people under the slogan: "Eigen volk eerst" (Own volk first) "volk" in the German connotation. (d'abord nos propres Flamands de souche)

See you tomorrow Dirk, for further comments...

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Fri 21 Dec 2018, 22:21

Dirk,

sorry I see that you are on board, but no time anymore this evening to make a coherent end to my reply. Perhaps tomorrow...
In any case thank you for your interesting article.

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Wed 26 Dec 2018, 21:32

About the new Chinese dictatorship...brave new world? Better than the dictatorships of the Thirties?
https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078193-000-A/the-world-according-to-xi-jinping/

Kind regards, Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Thu 27 Dec 2018, 21:04

@PaulRyckier wrote:
About the new Chinese dictatorship...brave new world? Better than the dictatorships of the Thirties?
https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078193-000-A/the-world-according-to-xi-jinping/

Kind regards, Paul.


It is in French from ARTE, but with "accurate" english subtitles from ARTE english... Wink

Kind regards from Paul.
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Thu 27 Dec 2018, 21:08

Addendum: the film don't start immediately sometimes, but after some trials the film starts nevertheless...
Back to top Go down
PaulRyckier
Censura
PaulRyckier

Posts : 3137
Join date : 2012-01-01
Location : Belgium

PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   Fri 28 Dec 2018, 21:39

@PaulRyckier wrote:
Addendum: the film don't start immediately sometimes, but after some trials the film starts nevertheless...


Also this evening as I sent it to someone else...
Therefore for those who understand French the original French one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_tQQzukfQ



Kind regards, Paul.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Are we back to the Thirties?   

Back to top Go down
 

Are we back to the Thirties?

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Res Historica History Forum :: The history of people ... :: Civilisation and Community-