Before talking about the supernatural and mythology, keep in mind that I am talking about magic tricks developed with science and a clever mind and not the occult and the supernatural. I am not talking about magic that is supernatural and transcends the laws of science. What I am talking about are magic tricks that are mere performance illusions performed by the likes of illusionists such as Cyril and Chris Angel. They do not transcend the laws of physics cause they are just mere illusions cteated by clever minds and those are what I'm talking about.

Now back to my original question. Were the ancient Persian Magis really expert performance illusionists in the same level as the modern magician illusionist Chris Angel?

Search for Magic (Illusion) in Wikipedia. Wikipedia says that the ancient Persian Magis were expert illusionist magic like Chris Angel:

This is what Wikipedia says:

"The term "magic" etymologically derives from the Greek word mageia (μαγεία). In ancient times, Greeks and Persians had been at war for centuries, and the Persian priests, called magosh in Persian, came to be known as magoi in Greek. Ritual acts of Persian priests came to be known as mageia, and then magika—which eventually came to mean any foreign, unorthodox, or illegitimate ritual practice. To the general public, successful acts of illusion could be perceived as if it were similar to a feat of magic supposed to have been able to be performed by the ancient magoi. The performance of tricks of illusion, or magical illusion, and the apparent workings and effects of such acts have often been referred to as "magic" and particularly as magic tricks."

Is this true?

Did the performing art of magic illusion come from the ancient Persian Magis?

Cain Ravenstone wrote:

Search for Magic (Illusion) in Wikipedia. Wikipedia says that the ancient Persian Magis were expert illusionist magic like Chris Angel:

The Wikipedia text you quoted above does NOT say that the Persian magi were illusionists. It says that their arcane and (to the Greeks) unfamiliar religious rituals gave rise to a new word in Greek, the meaning of which was extended to refer to any such inexplicable or unintelligible activity, and eventually to mean "magic" as we also would understand the term, including sleight of hand illusions etc. In Greek (and later Latin) usage it was more associated still with arcane wisdom rather than trickery, which is why we refer to the "Magi" in the nativity story from Christianity as often as we call the same guys "the three wise men" - one term came from the story's original Greek authors and the other is the English translation of what they meant by using it.

Calling the magi from the New Testament "magicians" would be almost like calling Criss Angel an "angel". I see however that his real name is Χριστόφορος Νικόλαος Σαραντάκος, so I suggest if you don't quite believe me regarding the magi you could do worse than check with the lad himself. Whatever about his illusionist skills, with a name like that Mr Sarantakos might also be able to explain to you precisely how the semantic elision arose in the language of his ancestors.

Deriving history through language is an interesting pursuit - and in my own experience one that chases notions through  quicksands and mirages.

However, looking at the supposition one wonders what these illusionists were about in a study of the heavens and the possible implications of signs in the sky. At the time there were real intellects with  their astrolabes and such  making serious calculations which  were respected.... wise men for want of a better word.

Now, about old time illusionists - and one assumes scamming in any form is a skill honed in ancient times too, it usually goes with a patter.... unless in mimed art form to amuse. What such people would want from a sign in the sky is not clear in that context.... but it would make a great comedy routine...... I see characters like Tommy Cooper the joker messing about with now-you -see- it-gold, Paul Daniels, the smartarse one managing the disappearing smoking frankincense routine and perhaps Houdini - the escapologist who could get out of things like tombs and that.... he might have the myrrh as a secret grease aid for  that. If you want a script, I sit with pencil poised..... and  as ever, me coat on, of course.

At least Tommy cooper had a sense of humour.  I'm not sure about David Copperfield cum Ancient Aliens.

brenogler wrote:

At least Tommy cooper had a sense of humour.  I'm not sure about David Copperfield cum Ancient Aliens.

What does that have to do with the topic?

I think we're fumbling around trying to find the topic, to be honest.

If you can bring up Criss Angel (sounds painful), surely we can raise you a Tommy Cooper or two? After all not only was Tommy no stranger to the arts of the magi, he was no stranger to the arts of the magistrates either!

And Tommy Cooper wore a fez!  Just like that! And Bren is right he was a funny illusionist... I have never heard of Criss Whoever. Is he funny?
 We have threads here not topics which are a bit Year Three. Threads sometimes wander a bit - darn things - some threads are even weave about in pink fantasies that we may not presume upon.

The most interesting word in the original post here is the word 'really.' That is a hard one for anyone discussing History. The little I know of ancient Persian wisdom is  of rather profound  intellect - doubtless there were entertainers of the day and confusion with - what nordmann calls - woo, woo appears to be on going.

Woo calls who woo? I woo'd never dwoo that! You make me sound like an owl.

Mr Angel is a Graeco-American illusionist known around the world to absolutely everyone, P. Or at least I have it on good authority everyone no older than 20, so a tad outside our scope. If you take Tommy Cooper and subtract the humour, the honesty when he did crap illusions, the personality, and of course the fez, then you have an Angel of the Criss calibre.

You can see him on Ywoo Twoobe.

Priscilla wrote:

And Tommy Cooper wore a fez!  Just like that! And Bren is right he was a funny illusionist... I have never heard of Criss Whoever. Is he funny?
 We have threads here not topics which are a bit Year Three. Threads sometimes wander a bit - darn things - some threads are even weave about in pink fantasies that we may not presume upon.

The most interesting word in the original post here is the word 'really.' That is a hard one for anyone discussing History. The little I know of ancient Persian wisdom is  of rather profound  intellect - doubtless there were entertainers of the day and confusion with - what nordmann calls - woo, woo appears to be on going.

 

Really, in History, could be replaced by: possibly, probably, most likely, and numerous others, except certainly - which is why I consider history to be as much a science as an art.

nordmann wrote:

I think we're fumbling around trying to find the topic, to be honest.

If you can bring up Criss Angel (sounds painful), surely we can raise you a Tommy Cooper or two? After all not only was Tommy no stranger to the arts of the magi, he was no stranger to the arts of the magistrates either!

Was this Tommy Cooper guy even an expert illusionist like Criss Angel or just a superstitious occult fan?

Yep, that was him down to a T. It was the itchy teeth gave him away.

Cain Ravenstone wrote:

Was this Tommy Cooper guy even an expert illusionist like Criss Angel or just a superstitious occult fan?

As Priscilla has said, he was indeed just like that.