The over use of many classical pieces to 'colour' a TV presentation is galling. MM mentions the William Tell overture. Classical muisc used thus is a daily occurence now. The prog on Hitler's Charisma, tonight was larded with it. So much so that I began to cringe then laugh at the choices .... 'Night on a bare mountains' for the SS cult place in Bavaria was inevitable.

Association sadly intrudes - film makers on the other hand have music written for the production...... though on TV a really good documentary production should not need music, should it?

Meles meles wrote:

Ah... well now since you've mentioned Jacqueline du Pre, and seeing that this is basically an historical thread, we really should mention Jacqueline's one-off classic performance in an english wood accompanied by a wild nightingale...

But....

But I can't find any online copies of that recording! Which surprises me .... Perhaps someone like Trike will do better........... It is a classic recording after all ... and it's classical music too.

And it was beautiful!

Are you sure it was her, and not this lady? This is the only one I recall hearing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU1Z7QtyJVs

Beatrice Harrison! Yes Gil, and ferval further up, that's the lady in question ... I had a sneaking feeling it wasn't Du Pre as I recall the recording was quite "crackley" in a vintage sort of way.

Adverts can ruin music too. Folk of my generation always find themselves singing "Everyone's a fruit and nut case" to Tchaikovsky's Sugar Plum Fairy music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8H4IC9ttIU

Oh yes, for me 'New World' will always conjure up the wee boy on his bike and Delibes those surfers with their swimming caps on the white beach.
'William Tell' though isn't the Lone Ranger for me, it's

Come away, come away, with William Tell,
Come away to the land he loved so well,
For the day, what a day, when the apple fell,
For Tell and Switzerland'.

I'll spare you the rest even though I remember it all.

The George Raft/Carole Lombard Bolero that Alan was speaking about;



and it is 200 years since these events;



Film Music, Barry, Bernstein, Jarre, Goldsmith, etc that is a different genre. Anybody want to start a thread for that one?

Oops - got the right ballet (Nutcracker), but the wrong bit. Fruit and Nut is of course done to the Danse des Mirlitons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg9F2UMGyvY&feature=related

Ah, Trike, although a bit done to death in film and adverts, I still have a soft spot for the 1812 Overture. Happy memories too... of summer, June in fact but after exams had finished, at Imperial College in South Kensington. Every year the college orchestra combined forces with the various college chamber groups, the college brass band, and others, to stage a one-off lunch-time summer concert on the lawns of the quadrangle below the Queen's Tower.

The varied programme always finished with a full-on performance of the 1812, with peals of bells from the College Tower itself (incidentally the highest full set of bells in London) and pyro-technics, cannon fire and explosions from the Chemistry Dept. .... and once during the "encore" with the added chorus of police sirens, when the performance had been mistaken for a terrorist incident.

On that theme, how about some Sibelius?
and something more moody

Meles meles wrote:

The varied programme always finished with a full-on performance of the 1812, with peals of bells from the College Tower itself (incidentally the highest full set of bells in London) and pyro-technics, cannon fire and explosions from the Chemistry Dept. .... and once during the "encore" with the added chorus of police sirens, when the performance had been mistaken for a terrorist incident.

Meles, I can just imagine something like that happening.

Staying with Scandinavian composers;

I had an unusual conversation once with the house guest of my fav adult friends - where, as a young teeager, I used to drop in because it was such a different world to my own and where I was welcomed, 'understood,' and encouraged to pursue my many interests and to train my mind to think - and paint - the wife was an acredited artist.

The guest asked me if I liked music - I hedged with discomfort when he asked which classical music I enjoyed. I should have but didn't mention the Shostacovith and Carl Nielson my grandmother had made me listen to with growing interest. The guest sighed and said that I could begin with music that brought in the folk music of the composer's land - and then he sang stuff to illustrate it. Not long after that, my friend's went to the first night of the guest's opera, A Midsummer Marriage - yes, it was Michael Tippett and he was the half brother of my friend. Later, Tippett had a spell of writing British Folk music into his..... and when the friend died only then from his Times obit did I know that he had been in charge of the submarine tracking room at Bletchley; rich times, though I knew of his 'interest' in submarines this was a surprise.

Sorry Priscilla, crossed posts....

..............And of course, Trike, who can ignore Grieg's Piano Concerto:



It's a piece I've always loved ever since first hearing it on an old rather scratched 33" that my parents had bought in a tatty second-hand record shop, the sort of place that fluorished in the sixties and early seventies - not the up-market, connisseur's boutique they are today, with their hallowed vinyl collector's pieces.

We also once performed this at school - I was first trumpet - my friend Gregory was the solo pianist. We were both hopeless at sports, but while he didn't have the coordination to catch a ball to save his life, he could nevertheless play the piano .... And, wow could he play!?!. In practice sessions I sometimes acted as his page-turner, but in concert he had the whole concerto off pat and committed to memory, no music needed!

He later became a Tornado pilot with the RAF ..... so I doubt coordination was ever really his issue ... just motivation, neh?

What a wonderful classical compilation CD we could all create

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w9yJdkeryI&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F4G5H_TTvU&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSNMibfaRg

I wonder if anyone has come across the work of Jocelyn Pook? She wrote the music for the 2004 film version of The Merchant of Venice which starred Al Pacino and Jeremy Irons. All the tracks are composed and arranged by her (with one exception I think) and she captures perfectly the mood of the 16th century.

Here is my favourite track from the film - the last lines of Milton's Paradise Lost set to the most haunting music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQhhLYGellI

PS Gil - re O Death Rock Me Asleep you may be interested in this short video

http://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/resources/anne-boleyn-words/o-death-rock-me-asleep/

Here's a bit more pre-Classical (Baroque, more or less) sacred music for you all - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-flbSceuxg

Some more Ludwig van;

Temp and Gil, this is the Hussite war hymn from the 1420s;



the translation is "Ye who are warriors of God"

there is a thread on Historum on religious music,everything from Early Medieval to Madonna and Norman Greenbaum

For no reason that I can think, I like any classical pieces that feature a well played trumpet - or two. I am so enraptured by Haydns concerto for two trumpets that it was played at my daughter's wedding - I'd better record it somewhere for my funeral too. I have neve heard it played live. The recordings always feature the same trumpeter doing both parts in an over recording.

I first heard it on a new cassette being played whilst on holiday on a canal boat. Imagine, 7am sun bright flicker through a leafy canopy over rising river mist, alone at the helm, scenting the cooking bacon and coffee to the soft hum of contented family chat somewhere for'ard and then this comes sparkling through the speaker. Bliss.

Well someone has to ramble....... P.

Ramble as much as you like P.




time for me to go away until tomorrow.

I don't think that's the one Priscilla meant... that's Haydn's concerto for a single trumpet which was written specifically to highlight the versatility of the newly invented keyed trumpet (invented by Haydn's friend, Anton Weidinger in 1793). Fine though it is I always felt that for a showcase piece Haydn's concerto is rather standard fare - although in Haydn's defence I should add that he had to dash it off in just a few months as it was composed for a benefit concert.

Far more splendid at showing off what the new trumpet was capable of is the concerto by Hummel written just a few years later. It was Anton Weidinger again who gave the premier performance in 1804. Even with a modern valve trumpet (invented 1813) it is phenominally tricky, especially the third movement:

Not the one I love but super anyway. MM do you think the piece for 2 trumpets also standard fare? Humpf if you do!

Now I did not mean that Haydn's music was not good... only that its structure is very much along the classic 18th century lines: the solo instrument plays a phrase, the orchestra answers etc... and that the trumpet itself is still essentially playing in the harmonic intervals of a natural trumpet.

Compare this to Hummel's concerto, written for exactly the same instrument and indeed premiered by the same performer. Yet Hummel brings out all that is possible and exciting about this new instrument: chromatic scales, sustained trills between semi-tones, subtle changes of key etc.

Both pieces are splendid but Haydn's (premiered in 1800) sounds 18th century, Baroque even, while Hummel's (premiered in 1804) is firmly in the 19th century, and it sounds totally different, even romantic in style.... although romantic does invoke thoughts of pianos, rather than trumpets.


By the way is this your concerto for two trumpets... with organ continuo:



EDIT:

I'm unaware of another Haydn concerto for two trumpets. Did you perhaps have Telemann in mind as the composer? He was a prolific writer of concerti for multiple instruments: 2 trumpets; 4 trumpets; 2 trumpets and 2 oboes; 2 trumpets an oboe and peruvian nose-flute etc....
Some are absolutely magnifcent.

I thought maybe she meant Michael Haydn - but still only one trumpet required ...

Ah now Priscilla, I think that maybe this is the one we're seeking, no ?! ... Vivaldi's splendid double concerto for two trumpets:



If it isn't the one, well tant pis .... it's still a corker!

Oh gosh , yes, MM! Thanks! Knew from the score at once and eventually managed to download it. So pleased you like it too -

How stupid of me to type Haydn - though its on the same tape as some Haydn - hence the aged confusion - and the tape is still in the purpose built shed for luggage we shipped over - no idea where.

So, my thanks - tell your aunt it's Ok to stop now. I withdraw my Humpf with abject apologies!

What a joy it is to listen to with a score though I know every note of all the parts. Would you say it was difficult for two soloists? I really know little about trumpets only the incredible sound they can make sometimes

Ah yes, another one I like Trike. Being in Benjamin Brittain 'country ' today, I was able to find CD's of music that I miss and which are on tape in our collection. very pleased with myself - a bit deflated when I was reminded that we don't have a player at the moment - can't recall if I packed it! There was so much and no time for packing lists so each carton is a bit like a rather diappointing Christmas as old kitchen stuff, so beautifully wrapped is emerging first. That I can live without; music is another matter.

MM’s posts about the new trumpet’s capabilities in the early 19th century somewhat mirror the book I am reading about the piano, The Piano Shop on the Left Bank by TE Carhart. This is a personal account but has considerable information about the history, development and workings of the piano. I suppose in theory I know the piano is quite a recent development but hadn’t really considered what that meant in practical terms for music. He says “The age of the baroque was giving way to the classical era and the piano was the perfect medium for music’s new expressiveness.” Although that is worded to mean the baroque era was already around when the piano became popular nevertheless the piano did allow for quite different music to be performed. It was louder than the harpsichord and therefore about to carry music as a solo instrument instead of part on an ensemble. The even tone meant music could be more fluid.

And the type of piano changed music too. The Viennese pianos were softer and more refined; English pianos were more robust in tone and had greater tension in the strings and sturdy frames which allowed the music of Beethoven’s later work to shine. Mr Carhart talks of Beethoven’s Hammerklavier as acknowledged to be his most difficult and most visionary composition for the keyboard, ‘a technical and poetic tour de force whose fugue finale still startles listeners to this day…In a sense, Beethoven was composing for an instrument that didn’t yet exist. Within a generation it would and the piano would reach its apotheosis.”

He then talks of French piano makers, Erard and Pleyel who built stronger pianos, inventing the pedal, the use of metal bracing bars and the double escapement action that keeps the hammer close to the strongs and allows the extremely rapid repetition of a single note. The new Romantic music required not only a wider compass of notes and a greater amplification of the sound, but also mechanical solutions for the speed, power and contrast of the new soloists. I can't tell how much he thinks the music followed the inventions or the inventions were the children of necessity here.

He then heads off to talking about the piano in the home and in view of the thread which has branched into Oscar Wilde's views, one of his bon mots is relevant here: "I assure you that the typewriting machine, when played with expression, is not more annoying than the piano when played by a sister or near relation." [Can't possibly be worse than a violin in similar circumstances.]

Can easily pop in some more piano music, Caro.

Priscilla, regarding your comments about Vivaldi's double concerto for two trumpets....

It's interesting that you like to read the score at the same time too, I thought it was only me that had that odd trait.

You ask if that concerto is difficult for two soloists. No, not particularly so. Neither part is particularly hard, although the 1st trumpet is pitched quite high, frequently playing top As and Bs, and quite often reaching to a top C, which is not beyond the scope of a good player, but to keep it up for the whole time requires stamina and a good strong lip.

Of course the piece is written in the key of C, and was accordingly probably originally played on trumpets tuned in C or D which would make the top notes just a tad easier to achieve (most modern valve trumpets are keyed in B flat). They would also have been slide trumpets, essentially natural trumpets, ie a simple fixed cylindrical tube only flaring towards the bell end, but with one or two short finger-operated slides to add some extra notes between the natural harmonics, although a full chromatic scale (all sharps and flats) still wasn't possible. Accordingly the piece has to be pitched relatively high to get closer to being able to attain a full chromatic scale, since with any simple tube the intervals between the natural harmonics get closer the higher you go. With a trumpet, where the pitch is entirely controlled by the lip 'pressure', it is physically difficult to play a trumpet very high - unlike say a violin where you just need to put your finger in the right place high up on the topmost string. For this reason really good trumpet players were very much in demand in Baroque orchestras (some players of these natural trumpets even resorted to devices such as leather straps that tightly bound them to the trumpet mouthpiece to give additional support while playing particulaly long and high passages). A good trumpet player could also flatten notes by as much as a semi-tone using the technique of lipping down (changing the lip embrochure), but this wasn't practical in rapid passages.

The limitation imposed by the intervals between natural harmonics was partly solved by the use of slide trumpets, but the movement of these could only be very short, unlike with the sackbutt/trombone, because of the need in trumpets to play very rapid descant passages - and if one wasn't to risk knocking the trumpeter's front teeth out! Hence the demand to successfully develop the keyed trumpet, a trumpet with keys that would cover holes in the bore, like say a clarinet .... or a valved trumpet, which only became possible with technological advances in metal-machining in the early 19th century.

The relative capabilities of natural, compared to keyed or valved trumpets, is very evident in the scores: in Vivaldi's concerto both trumpets play the same limited selection of notes throughout and accordingly it sounds splendidly baroque. With Hummel's concerto, should you find a score, you'll see it uses virtually every note, sharp and flat, between a bottom B and a high top B, ie it requires an instrument that is capable of a full two octave chromatic scale.

OK, that's enough trumpet waffle from me.

But continuing Trike's Turkish theme how about another splendid, very baroque sounding piece.

Jean-Baptiste Lully's 'Marche pour la cérémonie des Turcs':

Not waffle, MM, splendid stuff re trumpet guff - and my thanks for it.

I started score reading after a stay in a sub continetal Fransecan monastery where the Dutch monks when bored with endless bridge and scrabble played records and read scores - they were all muscians also. I was told that - for instance - in Bach's Christmas Oratorio each choral part had exactly the same amount of singing time. What I didn't ask was if they had found this out for themselves or it was a common fact; not an important one but querky. It seemed odd also to think that Bach may have done this on purpose. Trivia fascinates when it ought not!

A little bit of Mendelssohn

There are both slide and flatt trumpets (backward-operating double slide) in the Funeral Music march I posted a fair while back.

Right, that's the last trump - more funeral music. I could have used it yesterday when installing some stuff everything crashed. Has taken me hours to get up and running but new and improved - which was the intent.

My next fav music features anything played on the piano, to be honest inc and especialy jazz. All apart fom the concerto in which only one note is played through out and an american jazz player who is so frentic he must be on something very strong. I forget his name - he also dresses like an unmade bed.

So startle me with some piano stuff folks , please.

OK well then let's start with a well-known one: Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata No. 14 in C♯ minor ..... BUT the lesser known 3rd movement:

Oh and Priscilla, I've even found it with the score. As the Austrian Emperor Joseph II supposedly said after one of Mozart's operas: "... there are just too many notes, that's all..."!





EDIT : Swapped Kempff's excellent performance for one with the score.

Re W. Kempff, MM,Yep, same as jazz players - they all used to do it better with a droopy cig on the go....

Well, I know this stuff very well as I taught myself to play the piano with it! Why bother with scales and tinkly stuff. Not sure if I still could - no one has ever asked me to play it at a party for some reason. My dad played by ear - and could play anything - even just hummed to him. He was a great success in Italy during the war when he found a piano in the street somewhere...... well with no gum to hand out he found it worked as well in befriending the natives as well as his keeeping outfit happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDfvnfgDgSY

Of course, composers have always recycled their best tunes ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4HiprnyEFU&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CCmaBurWjmuY5f_P5X-KjR&index=25&feature=plpp_video

They have, indeed, Gil especially in the Baroque stuff, I think. nothing wrong in that; great artists and craftsmen did it far more though I don't think that was what Monet was about, his obsession if one can call it that with using the same subject to develop comes to mind.

I suppose this http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/73PAo-mgk_g must be about the most re-used of all - at least 150 composers, 300+ versions, of La Folia are known.

Priscilla wrote:

So startle me with some piano stuff folks, please.

How about this: Liszt’s 2nd Hungarian Rhapsony, but not how you usually see it played




Reminds me of a 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon.

Meles meles wrote:

Reminds me of a 'Tom and Jerry' cartoon.

Apologies to everyone in advance,this one just popped into my head;



now a proper one;

Meles meles wrote:

And while we're on Tallis and in a pensive mood I must offer this too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbzxhZT6akk

Ralph Vaughan Williams' "Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis".

(I'm allowed to be a bit melancholy and in a reflective mood today: it's my late partner's birthday, he died just 13 months ago, so Mozart's Requiem is just right too).

I knew that reminded of something;



and now for something completely different;

Triceratops,

thanks for the Carmina Burana and oru Dutch/German/Belgian friend and his orchestra. Was once life in brussels to one of his performances.

About Carmina Burana the first ime I saw it in the opera of Ghent. The second time I saw it from Poncelle on the French ARTE tv some years ago. And I was so impressed that I some five years ago bought the DVD:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/July02/Orff_carmina_DVD.htm

And O fortuna from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=BE&v=AP_CSQgBPpQ

And the whole film woth Spanish subtitles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAxU8eSIhiQ

Kind regards and with esteem,

Paul.

Could this be a future classical composer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ4mqmj3JuQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHVZlpiUibE



Odd how many people think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cbz9vYJDnk&list=AL94UKMTqg-9Cu-OsMI088q_uQw13ZgyGN&index=10
is by Vivaldi not just inspired by him.

I did wonder what todays google doodle was, turns out it is 90 years since the birth of Maria Callas;

Triceratops,





yes Maria Callas...

http://www.operasiempre.es/category/artistas/maria-callas/page/2/

See Maria Callas: Casta diva Norma Bellini 1955



But I prefer Anna Netrebko I think becuase she has a more "fully" voice. I don't know how to express it. Did some quick research and found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyric_soprano
And I see now that Anna Netrebko stays in the class of the "full lyric sopranos"
I don't know in what class Maria Callas is to post?
http://www.operasiempre.es/category/artistas/anna-netrebko/

On the URL here above you can compare the two voices in the section with the blue flower, the one with title:
"Ah! non credea mirarti" by Netrebko, Callas, Tetrazzini, De Hidalgo, Bartoli.
First Callas:
http://www.goear.com/listen/cf3006e/ah!-non-credea-mirarti--maria-callas
Then Netrebko:
http://www.goear.com/listen/1757ac6/ah!-non-credea-mirarti-bellini,-la-sonambula

Not that I am such an expert...just that I prefer the more "deeper" voices also from men...hmm, I don't know how to express it

BTW. I am always sad when a forum as this Spanish forum of opera got "died" Since some five years with it... 
Had already the experience with two French fora of history where I contributed and of course our beloved BBC forum...

Kind regards and with esteem,

from your friend, Paul.

24 April 1957, saw the first broadcast of The Sky at Night. The opening title music being the first part of Pelleas et Melisande by Jean Sibelius;



some of the previous youtubes have become casualties, unfortunate but it does happen

I see that the BBC are expanding their last year's '10 Pieces' program, which was aimed at promoting classical music in primary schools, to this year focusing on encouraging an appreciation of classical music amongst teenagers.

BBC : Ten Pieces - Secondary

Their repertoire for secondary schools is:

J. S. Bach - Toccata and Fugue in D minor
Bernstein - 'Mambo' from Symphonic Dances from 'West Side Story'
Bizet - 'Habanera' and 'Toreador Song' from 'Carmen'
Anna Clyne - Night Ferry
Haydn - Trumpet Concerto (3rd movement)
Gabriel Prokofiev - Concerto for Turntables and Orchestra (5th movement)
Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10 (2nd movement)
Vaughan Williams - The Lark Ascending
Verdi - 'Dies Irae' and 'Tuba Mirum' from 'Requiem'
Wagner - 'Ride of the Valkyries' from 'Die Walküre'

Now, ignoring the fact that over half of those pieces are not actually what one would strictly call 'classical', and accepting that it is necessarily a limited list of just ten pieces ... I still find it a rather bizarre choice, given what the BBC are claiming they want to achieve. On one hand I feel that maybe the route to making classical music accessible to teenagers might well be via film and PC games  ... but hey 'Apocalyspe Now' with it's stunning use of the 'Ride of the Valkyries', was made over 30 years ago, so, it ain't really a contemporary film is it?  And on the other hand I rather feel we are doing a disservice to young people if we insist on serving up classical music like McDonalds burgers, in the most palatable simplified and edited form possible, just because "we" assume "they" won’t understand it. Are we really saying teenagers cannot understand the emotion of a Mozart opera or the passion of a Beethoven Symphony?

But hey, we all have our preferences (and Priscilla I'm sure will be pleased by the inclusion of Haydn's Trumpet concerto and a Shostakovich symphony). But what pieces would you suggest, and perhaps more importantly, why? This isn't about what we old codgers might personally like ... but what we think would inspire and encourage teenagers to look at and appreciate, classical music? Thoughts or suggestions anyone?


PS : And I deliberately didn't make this a new thread because people may well want to scroll back through the past posts on this thread to see what once fired them up about classical music.