a well know street call from a newspaper vendor... and with today’s news being tomorrow’s history, how far back do you remember..., what’s your earliest memory?

Do you remember traders calling with horse drawn carriages? Steam trains and steam rollers.


Do you remember your schooldays as happy?


What’s the most remarkable thing you remember from your schooldays?


Family holidays... where did you go


What did you do for pocket money?


Where were you and what were you doing when you heard Kennedy was shot


When man first walked on the moon


What was your first job and what was your wages.


What’s the naughtiest thing you ever did and did you get away with it.

A few of these :

Earliest dateable memory - the coronation.

Six days a week the baker called with a horse-drawn cart, Wednesdays he didn't come, but another one did - in a 3-wheeled van, with wire spoked wheels. We lived by the points where the trolley buses were switched into the depot at night - some clippies were barely strong / heavy enough to switch them in.

First (paid) job - helping to de-beak a load of pullets. Got two and a kick for it. (Also my earliest hourly rate working in a sewing machine factory)

Steam rollers - yes, my grandfather worked for County Roads and Bridges. Tried to get the last steam roller preserved, but it was donated to a college. Wrecked in 6 months. He'd taken the White Horse and Invicta badges off.

Steam locos - we lived near a power station, and many trains of coal went in there - as did trains of barges (we lived on the Wolverhampton Level, and the Chase collieries staithes were too, so no "monkey and butty" nonsense - tarins of 12/14 fully laden narrow boats behind a tug). One grandparent lived near a "hump shunt" and that was never as exciting once the ubiquitous 08 Diesel shunters took over from the tank engines. Had an aunt living near the point where the Flying Scotsman took on water from troughs between the rails - water everywhere!

Went for a flight at Elmdon Aerodrome, in a de Havilland Rapide biplane.

Family holidays - Blackpool or Llandudno, but more often a day out to New Brighton, or, later, a week in my aunt's caravan at Barmouth.

Should be interesting Norman

Earliest Memories, Bombs dropping and the air raid warden chucking stones at the window and telling us to put the light out. Went upstairs and my bed was covered in plaster from the ceiling. Bristol.

School days, not happy. Did nothing special.

Holidays, ha ha. Beaches were mined.

For pocket money helped in a veg. shop

When Kennedy was shot I had a new baby. Still in Bristol

When man first walked on the moon we were in Aussie.

For my first job I worked in the Co-op.

Pay was about 25/- a week for 44 hours.

Cant think of anything naughty!!

I do vaguely remember lying in my pram in the back garden but that's not dateable, I also remember my first day at school, aged four I guess, strapped on the back of mum's bike as we negociated the rutted lane to the chaotic nursery school run by the vicar's wife.

Too young to remember Kennedy's assassination, but for the moon landing we were on holiday, in a rented cottage on a farm just off Flodden Field in Northumberland. I also distinctly remember the Soviet invasion of Prague, and the Aberfan disaster amongst major news.

Holidays were always a rented cottage or caravan, usually in Northumberland to visit Dad's family, or North Wales. Even as young as six or seven I remember us all hiking up to the top of Snowdon or the Cheviot. No proper walking boots, just a stout pair of comfy shoes. Even in the mountains my dad was always correctly dressed in collar and tie, and my mum would have her ever-present handbag tucked in the top of a old army rucksack, along with the sandwiches and thermos of tea.

Steam trains still ran along the South Coast line and my first really long distance voyage was on the over-night sleeper from King's Cross to Newcastle upon Tyne ... it must have taken about 12 hours (today I believe it takes two). The ferry to the Isle of Wight, to visit an elderly aunt, was by paddle steamer and couldn't carry cars unless loaded as freight.

The coalman had a horse and cart, but traders mostly had motor vans. They still delivered: the baker's van three times a week, the weekly grocery delivery and the laundry pickup/delivery Saturday.

My Dad's first car was a second-hand Ford Anglia - which seemed to need a full service if ever we contemplated a journey of over 100 miles. And I remember the excitement when we got our first telephone... but I don't recall when we got our first TV, although I do remember it always took a minute or so to warm up before working.

First proper job was Saturdays in the butchery section of Sainsbury's in Worthing. The skills learnt still useful today.

First weekly pocket money was a thruppeny-bit, my older sister got sixpence.

And in the light of certain current news stories about children peeing in public, I do remember peeing in the corner in the public library. Dad cleaned it up and the librarian just laughed and gave me a sweetie. No harm done, no public scandalised, no offence committed and no fine issued.

But I can also remember doing something doing very, very naughty when a bit older ... but since I didn't get caught, I'm not telling what it was!

Oh heck - quickly:

Horse drawn carts - rag and bone men, coal men.

Steam trains - standing on a footbridge enveloped in steam while the London express passed underneath.

Steam rollers - the noise and the smell of the tar boiler which was supposed to cure any chest infection.

Loved school, all of it.

The first Pakistani children arriving, ferociously bright brother and sister, their dad was a doctor in our local hospital.

Family holidays in a guest house in St Anne's.

6d pocket money, usually spent in Woolworth's, later summer/Christmas jobs in a department store in the hat department

When Kennedy was shot I was a contestant in the Strathclyde University Charities queen completion - there were only a 100 girls there then and if you entered you got free entry to the cocktail party. The press were there covering it and when all but one photographer suddenly vanished (despite the free booze) we learned what had happened so everyone went to watch television. I didn't win.

The moon - I had a small baby and a toddler, watched it all in bed.

No way am I telling you lot about the naughtiest things I did.

Only got a minute.

I remember a princess in a fur coat who wasn't allowed to get married - confused me because I thought princesses could do anything they liked.

A man on a very strange tricycle thing with a huge basket at the front. He rang a hand bell - the muffin-man. Delicious proper muffins and pykelets.

The rag and bone man who shouted, "Rag bone!" with the emphasis on the bone bit. The deeply mournful timbre of "bone" evoked an equally mournful response from our dog: he didn't bark an answer, but would throw his head back and *howl* pitifully when he heard the R&B man's cry.

Can't remember what I was doing re Kennedy and moon landing - probably my homework.

I was obviously a rich kid - I got half-a-crown pocket money which I invariably blew on Enid Blyton books and Cadbury's chocolate. Some of it went on my other addiction, though - Jubblies. I would frantically suck out the orange dye and then discard the rest of the huge icy triangle.

Worked as a student at the Supersoft Shampoo factory for a bit - can't remember how much I got paid. It was an awful experience and I didn't last very long there.

Holidays spent camping in Scarborough and other places in Yorkshire - usually praying Dad wouldn't be in too foul a mood.

I did something quite naughty in 1969 and something extremely naughty in 1974. Can't quite remember what it was now, but I felt deliciously guilty at the time.

EDIT: put "back" about twenty times in one sentence.

I have just remembered that a cycle with three wheels is actually called a tricycle.

Earliest memory from about 2yrs old when we moved into our house, I remember standing out the front. Or rather, the feeling of unfamiliarity that a new house brings anyway.

Horse drawn carts, there was a fruit and veg man who used to come around and the bread being delivered fresh from the bakery every morning. We'd be sent to waite at the front gate to collect it.

Loathed school, from the first day when I wet my pants because I was too frightened to ask the nun if I could go to the loo, right up until the end when I walked happily out of the gates for the last time.

Family hols were a rarity back then in Aus, the distance we had to travel made them very expensive. I saw the sea for the first time at about 10yrs, when we went on a train trip and holiday to Sydney.

We never got pocket money, if we wanted some money we had to ask for it and wait for the yes or no answer.

I don't remember Kennedy being shot and the moon landing I was in 3rd or 4th class. We watched it on TV at school.

First job was was at 18, in a solicitors office answering phones and making tea and coffee. I earned $AUS60.00 a week. The first time I ever had money of my own.

The naughtiest thing was hitting another child on the head with a hammer! I was about 2yrs and have no recollection of it but my mother has never stopped reminding me anyway. I was in trouble a lot though, mainly for being cheeky, questioning or answering back. Never for daring escapades unfortunately.

Islanddawn wrote:

The naughtiest thing was hitting another child on the head with a hammer! I was about 2yrs and have no recollection of it...

Ah, so you started as you meant to go on, ID?

Here is a Jubbly pyramid. Unfrozen 3d; frozen 4d. Says "orange drink" on the pack - using the word orange (as in the fruit) very loosely. Someone has commented that getting through a 4d Jubbly "could be an afternoon's activity". Absolutely right.





Could I add that I was supposed to save a substantial amount of my 2/6d pocket money. I had a little Post Office Savings book which I was very proud of, but I think I also remember savings stamps with pictures of Prince Charles and Princess Anne on them. Will have a google and see if I can find them.

Anne was 6d. My Glasgow cousins had loads of her and I was dead jealous. Charles was 2/6 - no one in the known universe had him, we reckoned

A whole week's pocket money on Prince Charles? That was seven and a bit Jubblies.

No way. I don't think even I had one of him.

There's the pair of them. Weren't they reissued with amended designs as the kids grew up? I wonder when they stopped.



edit: Obviously they were - this is Anne still in royal nappy mode.


Here's all we could show the cousins in retaliation when they were over on a visit.

Islanddawn wrote:

Family hols were a rarity back then in Aus, the distance we had to travel made them very expensive. I saw the sea for the first time at about 10yrs, when we went on a train trip and holiday to Sydney.

The sea! That was really the first time you'd seen the sea!?

I would love to know what your feelings were on seeing the sea for the very first time. I was raised in a seaside town and so to me the sea was ever with us. It was impenetrable since we could never really go there or at best only skim over it in a boat, but it was always there... 'rock-solid' even, but whatever it was always .. there!.

So born on the south coast to me the sea was always the border to the south: we could walk or drive, west, north, east... but never south. Even today I find it very hard to really visualise landscapes, maps etc. when they do not have a coastline, and preferably one to the South!

But, ID, what did you think when you first saw the ocean? The vast, wild, impenetrable, billowing, ocean.... ? What were your first impressions? I'd love to know.

Do you remember traders calling with horse drawn carriages? Steam trains and steam rollers.
Yes (milk doled out from churns delivered by the farmer himself). Steam engines I remember only as static vehicles - there was a goods shed near us which became a graveyard for steam locos before they were broken up for scrap. Up to 50 of them there at a time. The place would make a fortune now.


Do you remember your schooldays as happy?
Not particularly. When you look past the sadism, paedophilism and extreme lunacy inflicted on us I suppose we made the best of it, but "happy"? No.


What’s the most remarkable thing you remember from your schooldays?
The flying saucer which landed in broad daylight in the racecourse near where we were playing football. We all saw it and to this day have never come up with a rational explanation that all can agree on.


Family holidays... where did you go
Didn't


What did you do for pocket money?
Got whatever could be afforded so it varied - but always got it.


Where were you and what were you doing when you heard Kennedy was shot
Haven't a bull's notion. I was in the living room when they buried Pope John and I think I've managed to conflate the two events in my memory.


When man first walked on the moon
On the hearthrug.


What was your first job and what was your wages.
First "proper" job was in a pub. £5 a week.


What’s the naughtiest thing you ever did and did you get away with it.
Looking back it was probably when I set fire to the house, but at the time it seemed to have been surpassed by other crimes, can't even think now what they might have been. Being caught lying was a major felony in our house - probably one of those times.

I remember being in a cot in the alcove of my parent’s bedroom, and also being parked in a pram in our hallway...
I also remember crawling across the living room floor and pulling myself up the window bars on the French windows so as to see my family running back and forth at the top of the garden fetching buckets of water to extinguish the fire on my father motorbike in the rear of his workshop.

Many times I’ve talked about this to my sisters, all say I was far too young to remember it... only about 1year old, but I do.


Preschool I remember being farmed out to any Tom Dick or Harry while my mother went to work... I hated it, and would scream the place down, at times making my sisters so upset about leaving me at these places, they would gyp off school and we’d go home again. Some of those places you wouldn’t kennel a dog.

The solution was to farm me out during the week to an uncle and aunts, adjoining my Nan, my mother’s mum. She scared the living shit out of me and was a dead ringer for the wicked witch from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs complete with hatchet face, a hook nose and the wart.

This was in the wooden huts built for the WW1 munitions workers at the Woolwich arsenal. No electricity there, just a couple of gas lamps... my uncle was my mother’s half brother ‘Bill’ whom I detested... my aunt was a lovely kind woman... girl really... I wonder if she ever knew Bill used to abuse me. I mentioned this to one of my older sisters just a couple of years ago... she was shocked, and so was I when she told me he used to do the same to her. She used to live with Nan in another hut down the bottom of the garden.

All the traders, bread man, milkman, and fruit and veg man came via horse drawn carriage including the Pease pudding and faggot man, and the pie man...

Weekends I went home... where we had electricity and gas... motor cars whizzed past our house... but I did ‘help’ the express milkman ‘Fred’ do his round on his horse and cart.

Another uncle on my father’s side worked on the railways and sometimes took me to his depot where these steam monsters lived... every small boys dream. All the guys there were so friendly, and each wanted to make a coal smut mark on my face... they were as black as soot and so I didn’t realise then that some of them were black...
The road outside our house was widened being a main arterial coast road out of London... and I was in my element watching the steam draglines and rollers going about their business. Just loved the smell of the steam, oil and the tar... like ferval said it was supposed to be good for you... they said that about tobacco smoke as well.

A street party for the coronation... I saw my coronation mug not so long ago, and book with all the pictures... a program I suppose.

First day of school... my mother walked me to the gates and shoved me in... First teacher was a Scots woman called Miss Skellerton... dressed in thick tweeds with a huge broach of a hen’s foot a few feathers and whopping big amber stone pinned to the lapel... I didn’t like her leaning over me with that damned leg dangling in from of my eyes. We couldn’t understand a word she said. I remember her beating me one day so hard her bracelet flew off... that made her beat me all the harder. I told my father when I got home... and got another good hiding.


I remember going on a holiday with just my mother and father to the Isle of Wight. We went by paddle steamer, and had a tiny chalet... plenty of steam trains over there then. It seemed so strange to be alone with just my mum and dad... they bought me a clockwork tinplate man on a motorbike, and a submarine that fired torpedoes... still got that bike.

Family holiday were in ex army tents to Poole for an overnight stopover then on to Pentywan sands in Cornwall where you camped on the beach next to Mevagissy. Wonderful times when it didn’t rain. In the evening helping the fishermen drag their nets in up the beach and running back to our camp with half a dozen mackerel dangling from each hand... still love mackerel sizzling in the pan.

Pocket money was a penny per year... but if I followed Fred the milkman with a bucket and shovel... who would have thought a bucket of horse shite was worth 6d to my dad. We had lovely rhubarb.
The most memorable thing from school was being allowed to hold a highly polished flint hand axe... from my history teacher’s private collection... I dunno, that thing was magical, I swear I could almost feel the hands from antiquity as I held it. It’s what fired my interest in history... and an ambition to learn how to knap flint.

The other thing was science... separating water into oxygen and hydrogen via electrolysis, and then with a spark of electric turning it back to water... absolutely stunning. Not so long ago I saw a display tucked away in the Bristol Exploratory, sadly it was so coated in green slimy stuff, it was hard to see at work.

I remember sputnik, and Telstar... then the Russian Yuri Gagarin the first man in space...


I was in hospital when Kennedy was shot... I’d smashed my face up falling off my bike.


The Berlin wall and the start of the cold war... the Bay of Pigs etc... The nuclear tests on bikini... Scary times.

I was working on a very posh yacht in Malta when they landed on the moon...


What’s the naughtiest thing you ever did and did you get away with it.... Not telling and I never got away with anything.

Blimey... I’ve been rambling on again...

Since the first time I saw the open sea (not the estuary at New Brighton) it was at Blackpool, I suspect I thought it was a) wet b) cold c)windy.

Holidays were disjointed - mother, grandmother & I sometimes got 2 weeks, father and grandfather 1 each in succession - swapped over at 1/2 time, other one minding the shop for the week.

Yes, we had rag & bone men with horse-drawn carts, keen gardeners like my uncle from next door but one watched them like hawks in anticipation.

My (other) grandmother had a newspaper - News Chronicle IIRC - delivered by a woman on a motor bike, who used to take the surplus bantam eggs and sell them, on a commission basis, on her rounds as all the hens eggs had to go to the packing station so you got the required points to buy corn & meal to feed the poultry - pig potatoes also featured in their diet of mash, stained purple to stop them being sold, used to boil them in a wash copper outside by the pig sty (often swiped one to eat, or as hand warmers in cold weather), and my genuine first chores were collecting the eggs, and mashing the potatoes with a big wooden handled steel masher about half my height. Grandmother and paper lady used to make the Xmas puds and cakes for the families, men were sent to local pub to get brandy and stout for the mix. Too far out for horse drawn milk cart or baker, the Co-op were motorised by then anyway (but used to have an overhead wire-pulled cash system to get the change, and record the all-important "divvi").

On the bridge at Walsall were one, more often two, coke fired ovens - like the "pretend" ones used for baked potato sales in shopping centres, selling jacket potatoes, and, in season, roast chestnuts. Nearly lost an eye to a bad chestnut my uncle cooked on the fire at grandparents house which exploded. Grandfather, a master farrier, had made a huge two-pronged toasting fork worthy of Old Harry's Game, toast & dripping and pikelets for tea on a Sunday - toasters just don't do it right.

Grandmother shopped 5 days a week (no fridges for such as us), Monday, Tuesday, Thursday & Friday in Lichfield, Friday was a market day there, and she used to get fish, usually mackerel or herring, for grandfather, a (very) lapsed Catholic, from a stall by the statue to Boswell. Wednesday was early closing day in Lichfield, so we went to Walsall, where she paid the newspaper wholesalers for the paper lady (an honorary Aunt) and went round the market, much larger one than Lichfield. Winter Saturdays she went to the Wolves matches (including most away fixtures till she was in her 80s, she had a season ticket for over 50 years after an operation stopped her standing after 25 years on the terraces, she actually collapsed at Wembley when the Wolves won the cup), summer weekends she was the scorer for the local cricket team, and used to write the match reports for the local paper - did the same for one of the 3 WI branches she was in, and was a keen whist player at local whist drives, mostly as a "Lady playing Gent"

The first holiday I remember clearly, apart from a vague, unreliable impression of burning my mouth on a hot cup of tea when quite tiny, in Aran I think, was one I've mentioned before on some board when we went to a really remote hotel in Duror. I was 5 and I was the only one who enjoyed it - two weeks of almost incessant West Highland rain - since the hotel had a home farm and there was a wee boy my age who lived there. We collected eggs, delivered milk in cans and rode on the tractor at hay making. No electricity up stairs, a candle to take to bed and my mother swore the mattresses were stuffed with straw. We went to Cuil Bay which wasn't cuil - more bloody freezing. My grandfather and I would shelter in a roadman's hut made of tarpaulins and talk to the sheep.
Happy days, no wonder it was the next year we started going to St. Anne's.

Meles meles wrote:

So born on the south coast to me the sea was always the border to the south: we could walk or drive, west, north, east... but never south. Even today I find it very hard to really visualise landscapes, maps etc. when they do not have a coastline, and preferably one to the South!

But, ID, what did you think when you first saw the ocean? The vast, wild, impenetrable, billowing, ocean.... ? What were your first impressions? I'd love to know.

Yep MM, I was that old. Not unusual for that time and location especially when we had to travel 10hrs on the train just to get there. Only ever having swum in fresh water lake, river or swimming pool I remember being surprised at the saltiness most of all and that there were things like seaweed and jellyfish floating around in the water, I wasn't comfortable with that at all. And I was standing there gazing in fascination at all this gumph in the water, not taking notice of anything else, when a big wave came in and the next thing I remember was being dumped 6ft up on the beach with a swimming suit full of sand!

Now I couldn't imagine living anywhere that doesn't include the sea.

Quote :

Now I couldn't imagine living anywhere that doesn't include the sea.

When I was away last weekend we were speculating as to why so many people have a desire to live somewhere with a view of the sea. I know I do, my mother in law lived on the west coast for years and I hardly watched tv, just the view from her window. I also spent a lot of time in a friend's house looking out at the Firth of Clyde and memories of the waves crashing in in the winter are particularly strong.

Why is this so, I wonder? We couldn't come to any very clear conclusion.

I have no idea either ferval. It is an endless source of fascination for me too, the colours and shades especially. And there is something soothing in the sense of space the sea gives, coming from Australia the sea is the only place I get that same wide horizon and feeling of surrounding vastness that I grew up with.

Temperance wrote:

Ah, so you started as you meant to go on, ID? .

Well almost Temp! I gave up hitting people with hammers, but can still answer back occasionally. You may have noticed

I moved to Poole in my early teens, and have lived and worked by the sea since... until now. Whenever a bag of chips was bought, it was always a dash to a sea view to sit and eat them... I couldn’t imagine having a bag of chips without a seascape. When I picked up fairs in my taxi, and they said they were from Reading or Aylesbury or some such inland place... it prompted me to ask... so where do you go to sit and eat a bag of chips... not such a daft question as most knew exactly what I was driving at... strange as even when the windows are misted up and you can’t see a thing... it’s the fact that you know the water is there... no sea here but I’m surrounded by lakes and a much flooded river.

I just remembered, I do have a memory from when I was 2 and we lived in Bath, I used to love the square fruit pies, I think they were Lyons. It was probably imprinted by eating them often. That would have been 1939ish.



Also in Bath, and this would have been my Mother's memory not mine, we met Heille Selassie and he patted me on the head and said what a lovely child I was ha ha, Mum said his Wife was in the back of the limo and she was a very large woman.

at first glance gran... I thought they were twists of salt found inside crisp packets... pure nostalgia that.

We used to have an 8 berth caravan on a site at Herne Bay on the Thames estuary in Kent... right alongside the railway embankment where at night as the steam trains whistled past they sent billowing clouds of steam high into the sky illuminated by a mass of sparks and cinders... the embankment was forever catching fire... very exciting stuff for preschool kid.

The site was part of a working farm... going off and collecting the chicken’s eggs seemed good fun, and watching the cows going in for milking. I fell off the top rail of the fence outside the milk parlour one day... (did he fall, or was he pushed) and ended up in a foot or two of mud and cow shite... I got such a hiding back at the van much to the amusement of my older sisters... (I still maintain I was pushed)

Herne bay was/is a funny little place, a place where times passed by, but I used to like to go fishing off the end of the pier, second only in length to Southend.
30 years later I would meet the pier again, only this time as the skipper of a tug involved with its dismantling after a ship chopped it in half in a fog.
We used to go a lot to Canterbury and the Medway towns; Olde Worlde places full of history and very quaint in a working class Dickensian way... I used to like to walk along the beach to Reculver Towers, an imposing landmark, the twin 12th-century towers of the ruined church stand amid the remains of an important Roman 'Saxon Shore' fort and a Saxon monastery, and pick up the spent cartridges from the firing ranges... the bouncing bomb designed by Barnes Wallis of dam busters fame was also tested there.

We had another caravan right alongside the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romney,_Hythe_and_Dymchurch_Railway once again what joy to a small boy already fascinated with engines, engineering and getting mucky. Lots of memories there... strange my older sisters remember nothing of those times... apart from the roller skating rink in Dymchurch where a string of boys followed them everywhere, and I was used to pass messages on to them. I think it was a good job I was too young to read then.


Happy days.

normanhurst wrote:

We had another caravan right alongside the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway track. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romney,_Hythe_and_Dymchurch_Railway once again what joy to a small boy already fascinated with engines, engineering and getting mucky. Lots of memories there... strange my older sisters remember nothing of those times... apart from the roller skating rink in Dymchurch where a string of boys followed them everywhere, and I was used to pass messages on to them. I think it was a good job I was too young to read then.


Happy days.

Just as well, probably - you'd have been Hartleyed else.

I presume you mean L.P. and not J.R. Gil, I think even then, Norm could safely read a note about fly fishing.

My earliest memory is sitting in a pram outside the back door and patting the wall. I also remember waiting in the front garden for my brother to come home from school.

We had the rag and bone man who had a horse and cart but most deliveries were by motor vehicle. The co-op lady used to come once a week to take a grocery order from my mother and it was delivered to the house the next day.

I absolutely detested school once I moved to Northumberland at around 7 yrs and that loathing continued until the day I left.

Family holidays were generally in a caravan in rural Northumberland or at my grandparents house in Darlington. Sometimes though we got to have a week in Scarborough or Whitby which was a marvellous thing as far as we were concerned.

I got 9d per week pocket money that went up 3d per year. I had a paper round from being about 13 and a Saturday job in a greengrocers from 15.

I only just remember Kennedy being shot - more other peoples shock that my own. My father got us all out of bed for the moonlandings and made us watch through the night as he said it was history being made.

My first job was in Dressers bookshop in Darlington and I earned 9 pounds a week.

As for naughty - would have to write a book!

Oh come on... do tell nan.