@nordmann wrote:to pounce and ironically devour those who dare to touch her hem.
 
Although I know already a lot of French, German and English, but having with English not enough practical speaking experience I had some difficulties with the touching of "her hem"...
 
But then searching on the mighty google I found this...



And the story of Jesus and his "hem"...we had in a Roman-Catholic school a lot of religion "education" but not that story...
And I have never heard the expression:
From the free dictionary:
"To express one's respect, fealty, awe, subjection, or reverence to someone else. An allusion to the Biblical story of a woman 
who was healed by Jesus after she surreptitiously touched the hem of his garment."

My questions:

Is this use of biblical idioms typical for English or is that the same in other languages as French, German and Dutch?
Has it to do with the resistance to the Catholic church...in Protestant regions more present while they are more embedded in the Bible?

Hence in French and Southern Dutch less such expressions? And I don't know it, as I never was at school in a Protestant region of Germany but on the first sight in all the German that I learned during my life (only "Hochdeutsch") I didn't hear such expression?

Edit:
Last paragraph: omiting an "s" of "expressions"

I think Biblical idioms are as frequently used by the French as they are by the British. In newspapers and in everyday conversation I've encountered: rendre à César ce qui est à César; que celui qui n'a jamais pêché lui jette la première pierre; avant de regarder la paille dans l'oeil de ton voisin voit la poutre que tu as dans ton oeil; le bon Samaritain; le jugement de Salomon, séparer le bon grain et l'ivraie ... to give just a few examples. France might officially be a secular state with the concept of la laïcité underlying everything, but 2000 years of Christian culture is still deeply embedded.

However, if what you claim is true - and I'm not convinced that it is - then one difference between the language of Protestant states and the language of Catholic France might be that French translations of the Bible were generally banned from the beginning of the Reformation (other than at a few times of tolerance) until the mid-18th century, so to read the Bible you had to be able to read Latin. By contrast efforts to produce good translations in English, Dutch and German were often encouraged and supported by the state (eg the King James Bible). Also in the 18th and 19th centuries a greater proportion of the population in Britain could read, when compared to France, and anyway French was not the first language for most of the French population.

But all of that is probably irrelevant. I've never extensively read the Bible, didn't go to a religious school, didn't even go to Sunday school and haven't studied any religion other than for one compulsory year at school, yet I do somehow know the main Biblical stories and even sometimes use Biblical idioms. I guess it's just something you pick up as part of language.

Not a bible idioms but references deliciously used by the Irish never fail to amuse. The current dishy actor Dunbar in Line of Duty on TV said with despair during the big interrogation this week... "Holy Mary, Jesus, Joseph and the little donkey......." The finale next week ought reap a rich harvest of similar.... or so we hope. Nord must know volumes of similar.
This thread belongs in the Benefit of Religion thread... we did not consider satisfying religion based expletives. i may align mine there - if the spirit moves. By which spirit I must close to contemplate. Also can hardly read what I write as I had eye surgery yesterday and ought not be here.

As I see it from your examples in French there are as many as in Dutch:
aan Caesar geven wat aan Caesar toekomt
die zonder zonde is werpe de eerste steen
kijk niet naar de splinter in andermans oog, maar naar de balk in je eigen oog
de goede samaritaan
het salomonsoordeel
het kaf van het koren scheiden

I agree with you that we (France/Low Countries) have perhaps as many biblical expressions as in English, but for me this particular one I have never encountered. And I was when I was young addicted to Dutch novels and later during vacation to English and French ones.

Perhaps nordmann or you, can explain if this particular one is an exception to the other languages, as I see your examples as "normal"   ones.

I don't doubt nordmann's knowledge of the English language and gratulated him many times for the splendid grasp of that language here on the boards. And if he uses it, it has to be that it is perhaps as common in English as your French and my Dutch equivalents. Or just this one a particularism of the English language?

Thank you also for your "context" on Catholic France.
And about the King James Bible:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version
And in the Dutch Republic one had the "Statenbijbel":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statenvertaling

Kind regards, Paul.

You've misquoted the Gaffer, Priscilla: the exasperated Hastings actually said: " Sweet Baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey!"

That wee word "wee" makes the line just that bit more powerful, I think: indeed it was the best line of the night.

I haven't a clue what's going on in Line of Duty - it was a great comfort on Sunday night when Kate said she didn't have a clue either - and she's in it!

What a cow that DCI Carmichael woman is - I bet she's"H". But I suppose that's too obvious - perhaps she's just a vile career psychopath - a lot of them about these days.

PaulRyckier wrote:

I don't doubt nordmann's knowledge of the English language ... And if he uses it, it has to be that it is perhaps as common in English as your French and my Dutch equivalents. Or just this one a particularism of the English language?

Personally I wouldn't have said the story about the sick woman touching the hem of Jesus' garment was particularly well-known in any language: certainly in terms of related idiom it isn't up their with turning the other cheek, casting the first stone, and all that business about motes and beams in eyes. Nevertheless it's been the subject of song:

Temperance wrote:

the exasperated Hastings actually said: " Sweet Baby Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the wee donkey!"

That wee word "wee" makes the line just that bit more powerful, I think: indeed it was the best line of the night.

I didn't watch the series but that line has certainly been all over the radio and other parts of the media today. You're right Temp that the use of the word 'wee' is key here. It makes it 'extra Irish' although I suspect that this was crafted so by the scriptwriters for the benefit of the audience in GB and particularly in England. When I was in Belfast I would sometimes hear the term used when it was invariably delivered as "Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the little baby donkey!" Even, then, in Northern Ireland it was always delivered as a comic and self-aware expression.

Thank you for the correction, Temps - from my couch I came to change my error - it really was the best line. Being wan and frail, - or making a stab at that -I did not know it had been noted elsewhere. No idea what is happening, of course. Is thatt awful woman acted by the person who played the girl Shell (Michelle) in the first EastEnders when we all watched it? Oh dear, killing the thread, sorry. Biblical references are so commonly used it would take pages.

Priscilla wrote:

Biblical references are so commonly used it would take pages.

True. And that's not to mention all the different versions in the English language alone - Tyndale, King James, Jerusalem, Revised, Revised Standard, New Revised Standard etc. Thankfully none of them are written in stone.

Actually, different versions of that book were a source of confusion for a time in WWII. The RN long used biblical references as shorthand.
A certain famous actor was commanding a small vessel crossing the tlantic. Twice in succession he lost contact during the night. When he regained contact, the Senior Officer Escort signalled "Hebrews 13:8"

As an RN officer, at that date he was using (naturally enough) the King James verssion. Looking it up, the officer was using the one supplied by the USN - the Revised Standard version.

The two were subtly different,
message sent
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

and as received

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Meles meles wrote:

PaulRyckier wrote:

I don't doubt nordmann's knowledge of the English language ... And if he uses it, it has to be that it is perhaps as common in English as your French and my Dutch equivalents. Or just this one a particularism of the English language?

Personally I wouldn't have said the story about the sick woman touching the hem of Jesus' garment was particularly well-known in any language: certainly in terms of related idiom it isn't up their with turning the other cheek, casting the first stone, and all that business about motes and beams in eyes. Nevertheless it's been the subject of song:

 
MM, did just with my perhaps inadequate search methods of "Google" with all kind of combinations of words and "words" to find an equivalent in Dutch and French and nothing...
The "episode" seems to be well know for the "interested" ones, both in French and Dutch...but further...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Femme_h%C3%A9morragique
And for my Roman-Catholic education...I was already then in rebellion...and did only what I had to do for survival in the course, while you needed 50% in total and in each "main" course as mathematics, you needed 40% and to my frustration "religion" was also a main course...

And yes in English now I see it...even in the Navy...I had several friends in the Belgian marine, even family...but such religion related stuff, no...and I guess in the lay republican French navy...

Of course you are right with:
"certainly in terms of related idiom it isn't up their with turning the other cheek, casting the first stone, and all that business about motes and beams in eyes."
I know them all in Dutch in everyday use also.
Do you mean now that it in English is also not so often used as the "normal" ones? Although if you read Google in English it seems to be a well know "idiom"?

As for the song: Of course never heard. As youngster with the Dutch "heimat" songs and about the "coast"  (mijn vissersmeisje ) and German "schlager"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kUaTfhGuqs
And my former parents-in-law both opera of Ghent addicts...and so...although I many operas liked and was moved by. And yes the great opera arias were sung in street songs in Dutch translations...
And I would forget: I listened also to the English language "tjingle-tjangle" of my sister and I have to say some had beautiful melodies...
Later I had that many "working activities" that only time remained for some leisure as the "kermesse" and journeys...

OOPS MM how I came now from "biblical idioms " to German "Schlager" is beyond me...

Vizzer wrote:

Priscilla wrote:

Biblical references are so commonly used it would take pages.

True. And that's not to mention all the different versions in the English language alone - Tyndale, King James, Jerusalem, Revised, Revised Standard, New Revised Standard etc. Thankfully none of them are written in stone.

 
Vizzer, perhaps I started on the wrong foot with my "biblical idioms" as in my opinion the references and quotes as for instance "Matheus nr and so on" are quite another kettle of fish and not so many times quoted or mentioned in Dutch I think, even in the Northern Dutch language (Dirk Marinus?) And I haven't them heard on the first sight in French either...
And as I said not in the Belgian Royal Navy too.
Kind regards, Paul.

But Paul you didn't name the thread 'biblical idioms', you named it 'biblical related idioms' which covers a multitude of sins. I had thought, for instance, that 'kettle of fish' was a possible candidate here but it's probably not.

P.S. You've reminded me that I wrote 'none of them are written in stone' when, of course, it should be 'none of them is written in stone'. He that hasteth ...

Thank you so much for the clarification Vizzer.
Kind regards, Paul.